MR. LUSKIN: GEB Attorney calls Arthur
Coia.
(WHEREUPON, the witness was duly sworn.)
ARTHUR COIA,
called as a witness herein, having been first duly
sworn, was examined and testified
as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Mr. Coia, could you state your full name
Q: Do you hold a position with the
Laborers' Union, sir?
Q: How long have you held that position?
A: Approximately two years.
Q: And before that, have you been
affiliated with the Laborers' Union?
A: Yes. I joined the Laborers in 1957.
Q: So you have been a member for almost 40
A: And I've had, I've held various office
positions, from local union, District Council
International representative, regional manager,
General secretary/treasurer, and now General
Q: And your father is also Arthur Coia, is
A: Yes. Arthur E. Coia.
Q: He is deceased now, is that right.?
A: Yes.
Q: Was he also affiliated with the
A: Yes. He was affiliated from 1933 until
his passing in 1993; 60 years.
Q: Mr. Coia, when did you first hear
of
A: He was just put on the Executive
Board
Q: Have you ever heard of him before
that?
Q: Who put him on the General Executive
A: He was elected to the Board in
1984.
Who was the General President in1984?
Q: And do you know whether MR. Serpico
was
elected at convention or was he elected
by the
A: He was elected by the General Executive
Board in 1984.
Q: Who nominated him for that position?
Q: Would it normally be the prerogative of
the General President to make a nomination to fill
a vacancy on the G.E.B.?
A: Yes.
Q: When did you hear about Mr. Serpico next,
after 1984, when you heard that he had become
a vice president of LIUNA
A: 1985, when he testified before the
President's Commission on Organized
Crime
a: What do you recall hearing about his
testimony before the President's Commission on
Organized Crime?
A: Allegations of ties to Mob figures in
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: What were you at the
time Mr. Coia? What position did you hold in the
union at the time?
THE WITNESS: I was an International
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Working out
of?
THE WITNESS: New England region.
Q: Now, in 1985. when you heard the
allegations that Mr. Serpico was associated with
organized crime did you personally have any way of
knowing one way or another whether those
A: No. I didn't formulate any
determination of whether they were
true or false.
Q: And you had no personal information
about him at that time?
Q: Now, over the nest four years, what
contact, if any, did you have with
Mr. Serpico?
A: Well in 1986 convention, which was held
in Miami, and then from there, probably two or
three times a year up through 1989 at either
Executive Board meeting or meetings, or a
Q: And you weren't a member of the General
Executive Board then, were you?
Q: How would you come to attend General
Executive Board meetings?
A: I attended the Board meetings, I
accompanied my father, that was from 1987 through
Q: And your father was a member of the
A: Yes. He was a General secretary/treasurer.
Q: Did there come a time when you wanted to
succeed your father to the General
Executive Board?
A That was in 1989. My father was
seriously ill. For his benefit and the health
reasons. I thought it would be best if he would
retire and enjoy some years that he had.
And I thought that I would like to get
on the Board myself.
Q: And what did you do about the
possibility of succeeding your father?
A: I contacted the General President
Angelo Fosco.
Q: And when was this as best you can
A: Either in the later part of December of
1988, or the first week in January of 89 in that
vicinity, in that time frame.
Q: Did you call him on the telephone or
did you come visit him personally?
A: I spoke to - I called him on the phone
and asked, that my father was ill ,was thinking of
retiring and I wanted to speak with him.
So I went to Washington and spoke with.
him personally.
Q: What do you recall - how long between
this phone call did you come to Washington to meet
with Mr. Fosco?
Q: Tell me what you can recall about the
:meeting in Washington, what you said to Mr. Fosco
what he said to you.
MR. LYDON: Can we have a foundation as to who
BY MR. LUSKIN:
a: Was anyone else present at this meeting
Q: When you met with him in Washington
A: No; just myself and Angelo Fosco.
Q: Okay. Can you recall what was said at
A: Yes. I explained to him that my father
was sick, wanted to retire and that I would like
to come on the Board.
C: What did Mr. Fosco say in response?
A: He said that, well, he as generally
supportive of that position. He acknowledged the
work that I had been doing in New England.
He said but he would like me to contact
John Serpico. I want you to talk to him and I'll
talk to some other Board members myself.
Q: And did Or. Fosco identify anyone other
than Mr. Serpico that he wanted you
talk to?
A: No. He said he wanted me to, he said,
call John Serpico and then you can
get back to me.
Q: And did you in fact after- was there
anything else said at this meeting that you can
A: Well I thanked him for his position of
support .And that was basically it. That was
basically it.
Q: Was the idea, to be clear, that you
would become the General secretary/treasurer and
not simply vice president.
A: I expressed to him that I wanted to
succeed my father in his role as General
Q: And he was he supportive of that?
Q Now, did you in fact call John Serpico
Q: How long after your meeting with Mr.
Fosco did you all Mr. Serpico?
A: It could have been the same day or the
next day. It was very close timewise.
Q: What do you recall about that telephone
conversation? What did you say to
Mr. Serpico?
A: I told him that I had spoken to Angelo,
that my father had wanted to retire, he was sick,
and I wanted to succeed him, and Angelo told me to
And then John said he would get
back to me. He called me two or three days later,
and told me to come to Chicago.
Q: Can you recall anything else about
either of those two conversations?
A: No. We made a date to meet in Chicago.
And I came in to O' Hare Airport and met John
there
Q: Did you know what the purpose of the
meeting in Chicago was to be?
A: He just told me over the phone that he
wanted to see me in Chicago, and I
came..
Q: Based on that conversation did you know
where you would be meeting or who you might be
meeting other than Mr. Serpico?
Q: You say you did go to Chicago?
A: Yes.
Q: How long after this second phone
conversation did you travel to Chicago?
A: Probably two days, three days after
that.
Q: Plane Lands in Chicago you get
off the
plane. What hoppers next?
A: John meets me at the gate where I came
in. the jet way. And from there -
Q: Was he by himself? I'm sorry. Was Mr.
Serpico by himself when he met you
at the gate?
A: Well then we walked from the gate
through the airport, then we stopped at an area
where there was a little coffee shop. And he said
I want you to meet a friend of mine.
Q: You were still in the airport?'
A: Yes in the airport area, the concourse
Q: And what happened next?
A: He said to me I want to - I want you
to meet a friend of mine and he is sitting over
there: and brought me over to this
person.
Q:: And was this a person you recognized.?
Q: Were you introduced to this person?
Q: Who did Mr. Serpico tell you is the
Q: Can you tell me what happened next?
A: I went over to the table and he
introduced me and at that point Solano told me
to sit down and told John to leave us alone and
Q: Did Mr. Serpico in fact leave you and
Mr. Solano alone?
Q Did he disappear completely from sight
or did he stay in this coffee area?
A: No. He was in the coffee area but out
of hearing lengths
A: Well. I sat down. and Solano asked me
how my father was. He said, I understand he's ill
and I understand also that you are coming on the
Board. And I said yes.
Then he said to me I want you to
understand this, that John Serpico will be the next
General President of this union. He pounded on the
table and pointed over. He says, we're grooming
that man there to be the next General President.
He said it quite emphatically. and
-
Q: What else, if anything ,did he
say to you?
Q: What was his manner in this conversation?
A: Well his demeanor and manner was
forceful. He told me. He was emphatic about it.
And it was a statement that he made to me. And I
Q: Did he indicate to you in any manner
why and I think his words were Mr. Serpico, we
are grooming Mr. Serpico to be the next president?
Did he explain why at all?
A: No, he didn't say why. It was
forceful. It was not in a position of - it was a
position of telling me. There was no reasons or
answers or questions to be delivered
at that point.
Q And did he indicate who "we.
were?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Who's we?
MR. LUSKIN: "We".
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Oh the term .'we.'
MR. LUSKJN: Yes.
A: I understood it to mean it wasn't union
politicking that we were talking about here.
I had heard of Solano through the
organized crime committee's reports. The whole
thing which I indicated earlier came to be a
reality in a sense ,with Serpico and Solano, and
me sitting there. And the rumor issue became a
reality.
Q: Now, what if anything did you say in
response to what Mr. Solano said to
you.?
A: I didn't say anything in response.
As a matter of fact, at that point, he
called John back to the table, and may have talked
about the weather very casually; really got out of
there. That was it. He dismissed the both of us
Q: How long in total did you spend sitting
Q : And what happened after that.?
A: Well he got up. We left, said
good-bye. And I went to the - or John and I
left .And we went to the ticket counter. I got a
ticket back to go to Rhode Island.
Q: Now how long were you in Chicago
A: Probably an hour and a half to two
hours. I mean. by the time I got a ticket back and
Q Now did you and Sir. Serpico have any
conversation at all about your succeeding your
father to the Board while you were there in
Chicago?
A: No, not really. He inquired again about
the health of my father and basically he would
get some support of other Board members, told me to
get some support from Board members, and he would
Q: Now based on the circumstances of this
meeting at O'Hare Airport here in Chicago, did you
form an understanding of who was in control of the
a And what was that based on.?
A: Based on the way it as presented to me
The way he told John to leave the table, to leave
us alone, the way he called him back ,that this
his show. I'm talking about Solano. The way he
got up abruptly, it wasn't like, you know, thank
you Mr. Coia for being here and any niceties. It
was, okay time's up ,and the show
is over.
Q: Did you know what position Mr. Solano
held within the union at that time?
A: I'm not sure if I knew at that time.
but I'd have to say he was either a president or
business manager of one of the locals
in Chicago.
Q: And Mr. Serpico was an Lnteruational
A: Yes.
Q: Did you have any doubt at all about who
was in control of the situation?
A: Not the way it came down, no.
Q: Did you also reach an understanding
about the purpose of this trip to Chicago which you
A: I was brought into this meeting to tell
q me that, here I'm coming on the Board and John
Serpico will be the next president
Q: And did you form an understanding of
what Mr. Solano meant when he said that we, or
Chicago, were grooming Mr. Serpico to be the next
president., `
A: I understood that the scenario that
developed ,again, the demeanor, the emphasis that
was placed on the words, the rumor of the organized
crime committee report ,the whole thing became a reality.
It was something- I don't know-
like out of the movies. That is what I would have
Q: When you say the rumors became reality,
what conclusion did you draw about what had just
A That I was told that he was going to be
the next General President. That's the way it
was. It was a matter of fact; and that the issues
that developed out of that Crime Commission was a
reality, that this group of people were controlling
Q: And did you form a conclusion based on
that meeting about whether Mr. Fosco was aware of
the circumstances that you encountered
in Chicago?
A: Right. After that meeting I formed a
conclusion. He directed me to John Serpico. John'
Serpico directed me to Vincent Solano. And I'm
So the conclusion that I formed was that
the, there was- everyone was aware of this
particular meeting but only me, before I got
Q Despite the fact that you had come to
the conclusion that the rumor about Mob influence
in LIUNA was a reality ,as you put it, did you
decide nevertheless to go ahead and try to assume a
seat on the General Executive Board?
A: Yes I did.
Q: Would you tell me why?
A: Well I came to the conclusion that
there were a lot of good people in the union, that
there may have been some bad apples here and there
but generally speaking, there were a lot of good
people and a lot of good people on that Board.
And the union should go forward to do
what it was supposed to do in good ,which in most
Q. And did you form any kind of strategy
about how you were going to pursue
that goal?
A: Well not then. I didn't form any
strategy.
My next - I had to in fact get elected.
Q: Let me stop you then, and ask you what
happened next. Let's try and get back on track
Were you subsequently elected to be
General secretary/treasurer?
A: Yes. A couple weeks later, maybe two or
three weeks later. The Board met in Florida. My
father submitted his letter of retirement. And the
Board elected me unanimously. That was on February
11 or 12 of '89.
secretary/treasurer - let me stop you for a
second, and ask you if you can describe for me the
duties of the General secretary/treasurer of
Well, they are limited. They basically
handled the books and records and monitoring the
The general day-to day operation of the
union were in the powers of the authority of the
General President.
General secretary/treasurer monitored
the investment of the union, auditing program.
So they were limited to the financial transactions,
, I'd have to say.
Q: Now you testified a minute ago that
based on this meeting in Chicago, you got the word
from Mr. Solano, you formed the opinion that the
allegations about Mob control of LIUNA were
essentially true, is that right?
p ~ A: Well there were a lot of good people in
LIUNA. Mob control at the General President level,
yes.
Q: Well, and my question is, what if
anything on becoming General secretary/treasurer
A: Well, I did a lot. I did a lot,
especially from 1989 to the middle of 1992.I
first went down to Washington and got a picture of
the - or lay of the land, as we would say,
'structure of how Internaconal headquarter was
laid out. people, departments, how they ran;
developed a program on some of the things that I
thought were, could make the organization more
efficient, spoke to Angelo Fosco about that.
I developed or analyzed the regional
office structures, specific regions in particular,
brought forward some new innovative programs that
make the union more open, especially in labor
management and training and education, health and
safety.
I also hat to direct certain priorities,
to have the members more informed and communicate
better with them, make the membership and the
regions and the district councils more aware of
what my abilities were. I was younger then, you
know, back around 1989; had to develop a certain
level of respect for the - from the people at
headquarters, department heads, certain level of
respect from the people in the field.
, And in that time and in that process, I
paid close attention to the individuals that were
employed by us in the field, our International
representatives, and also the regional
offices.
Q: Let me stop you there.
A: I made -
A: You know why? Because this is a process
that developed from '89 to '92.I did that, and at
the same rime tried to develop a respectful and
energetic rapport with the General Executive
It was, almost tried to politic, because
I just, I mentioned to you this 1989 meeting, and
either myself or someone else on that Board had to
be put in the position of assuming the General
President's role, because we, "we" meaning the
union, the members, could not afford to have anyone
that was outlined in that Commission's report head
We had a cloud on the organization for a
long time, very long time. And that hampered our
organizing efforts. That hampered our collective
bargaining issues. It hampered our abilities to
So we needed someone in a General
President's role that could carry that message
forward, and not be hampered by a cloud of
suspicion, and dealing with organized come figures
or undesirables. That could not be.
So I set out for a program to make the
Union better in one respect, and to politic, so
that in the event Fosco retired, or decided not to
run again, that someone, either my or someone
else would be in position to assume the
President's role, and not John Serpico.
Q: Now, during this time period, 1989,
1990, when you first got down there as General
Secretary/treasurer, did you have relatively close
a: Did you ever raise with Mr. Fosco the
concerns you had about organized crime
influence?
A: I did. I told -
A: I told him that this organization has
been under a cloud for a long time.
Q When did this conversation tactic
place?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Can you tell us
approximately when this first came
up?
THE WITNESS: Well, I first of all got my feet
implanted in the position as General
When I got there, my first conversations
with him about trying to develop new programs, new
structure, ways of minimizing any undesirable
effort on this union, probably six months into the
office.
I pointed out to him that a better
updating or better auditing updating system should
be put into place; a compliance program. I learned
that there were people in the field that were doing
two jobs, where they weren't able to handle one,
getting paid for two. I brought this out to him.
And I also discovered in that period
that Mr. Serpico was assistant to the General
President. I wasn't aware of that before.
And I told him that, you should make an
effort to put someone else in that position,
someone like Jim Norwood or a Lou Ellysie or a Carl
Q:: When did that conversation take place,
as best you can recall? Let's just focus on that
MR. LYDON: And who else was present?
MR. LUSKIN: Well. I'll ask it. Thank
you.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
A: Well, I had a number of conversations
with him. The first conversation -
Q: When was the first conversation?,
Q:: About Mr. Serpico being - your concerns
about Mr. Serpico being special assistant to the
President ,.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Roughly the period.
A: Probably four months later, which would
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Was anybody else present when you were
talking to Mr. Fosco?
Q: What did you say to him?
A: I said to him. I didn't realize that
John was the assistant to the General
President,
Q And when did that take place.?
A: And he told me that that was around 1987
or 1988, in that time frame.
Well, I said, why did that take place?
Because you know what developed in the Commission's
report. You know what the problem is in Chicago.
Why did you allow this to happen.? You are only ,
putting us under a cloud more by doing
this.
Q: What did he say in response?
A: He said, well, it had to be like
that.
Q: Did he explain?
A: No. And I didn't go into it any more
either at that time.
Q: Now, in these first several months, were
there any other matters related to the possibility
of organized crime influence that you raised with
Mr. Fosco?
A: Well, as I was going through and
developing the regions or reviewing the regions,
we pointed out there was special International
representatives, which are part timers.
Q: Let me stop you and ask, are those
International positions, people paid by the
Q:: Go ahead. I'm sorry to interrupt
you.
A: I'm sorry. I lost my -
Q: I asked you, you were starting to tell
me that you found that there were positions,
part-time positions called special International
representatives.
A: Right. They were special International
representatives, which we, which were classified as
part timers. There were no records of any activity
I told him, I said, these people are
basically no-shows. How do you allow this to
happen?
Q: Who were these people, And where were
A: Well. the time, we are into the end of
89. Frank Caruso was one. And I believe another
one was Palermo, Palermo. As time went on, others
were hired: and the same problem or the same
Q: Okay. But focusing on these first two,
Palermo and Caruso, did you believe these to be
no-show jobs?
Q: What did you say, if anything, to Mr.
A: I told him, how come they are on our
Q: Was anyone present when you raised this
A: No.
Q: What did he say in response?
A: He may have been silent. I'm not even
sure he gave a response to it. It is tough to
really remember that
Q: Did you raise this issue with him on
A: In 1992, on the no-shows, again, after
the convention, at that time, there was another
individual put on without me even knowing it, which
was John Matassa.
And I told him then, how come this
fellow is, you just put him on, when it doesn't
have the right appearance? If they are not doing
anything, this is wrong.
He said. well, I was told to put him
on.
Q: Did he tell you who told him to put him
on?
Q: Are Mr. Palermo, Mr. Caruso and Mr.
A: Yes, yes.
a: Now, moving ahead to 1991, the next
convention, after that, when is the next time, if
at all, that the subject of Mr. Serpico possibly
succeeding Mr. Fosco came up, that
you can recall?
A: Right after the convention; well, the
first part of 1992.The convention was in
September of '91. So first part of '92.Angelo
started to talk about retiring, and just casually
talking about it.
And then the subject really blew up in
the middle of '92, when one day I was in the
office, and Carl Booker come to speak with me, and
MR. LYDON: Can we just stop here and get a
foundation for this conversation, as to who was
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Give us an idea of
where it is, and roughly what time.
(2 MR. LUSKIN: Sure.
Q:: Let me ask you, where did this
conversation take place, Mr. Coia?
A: In my office; he came down or came up
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: This is in
D.C., sir?
THE WITNESS: This is in Washington,
yes.
Q: In the headquarter of LIUNA in
Washington?
A: Yes. My office was on the seventh
floor. He came to my office, and said to me that
MR. LYDON: Is there embody else present.?
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Is there anybody else present?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Mr. Coia, who is Carl
Booker?
THE WITNESS: Carl Booker?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: What was his position
THE WITNESS: He was director of jurisdiction.
Q:: Did Mr. Booker also function in a
de facto capacity as an assistant
to Mr. Fosco?
A: He wasn't - there was no formal title.
His formal title was director of jurisdiction. But
he helped him
Q: But were those responsibilities that he
A: Did that and he had an assistant by the
name of Steven Hammond. So Carl's real job was to
answer the mail for Angelo and work
with Angelo.
Q: I'm sorry. I broke your train here to
establish this foundation, but we have to do it.
Mr. Booker came to your office on the seventh floor
at headquarters in-
A: That is what I said. I don't know if he
came down, because he may have been upstairs with
Angelo, which is, his office was on the eighth
floor. Or he may have been in his office on the
A: He came to my office. He came up or he
Q: He ended up in your office is that
fair?
A: He came to my office yes. And he said
to me that Mary, Mary Devella, which was Angelo
Fosco's secretary was very upset and may have
even been crying, because Angelo told her that he
was retiring and that she had to leave also;
further went on and said that the reason is that he
told Mary that John Serpico would be replacing him
as president, and he would be taking his secretary,
or people down to take her job.
Q: Is that all that happened in this
conversation?
A: That's basically it, yeah. So I
immediate -
A: I was very disturbed over it because I
had had these conversations with Angelo. He knew
my feelings. He knew what the problem was.
So I went upstairs, spoke to Mary and
said that, did he just tell you -
Q: Was anybody - let me stop you. Was
A: May have been Carl. I'm not sure. But
I stormed upstairs, went in to see Mary; did he
tell you that he was retiring, and John was
A: She said yes.
A: And he is taking some people down from
Chicago? She said yes.
I went in to see him at that point and
closed the door and started yelling
at him
A: It was just me and him. Maybe Mary
heard it - I'm not sure - because her office is
right outside. But I was yelling at
him
Q: What were you yelling about.?
A: That this is - first of all, I asked
him did you tell her that you were retiring, and
rot that John was replacing you., He said yes.
Then I said you know the problems that
this union has had in the past, you know the
problems you personally went through back in 1980;
how can you allow, even think of bringing John
Serpico and replacing you in this
position?
Q: Let me stop you for a second here. What
problem, in 1980 were you referring
to?
A: There were accusations and allegations
and ultimately indictment on Angelo that he had
been controlled by the Mob in Chicago.
Q: Okay.
A: So I said, with all these problems that
you had and this union has had .you cannot do
this. Do me a favor I said to him, stay in your
job. I'll do your work. I' m not going to get into
this.
He says, well, I can't really do that
because I have no one to turn to in Chicago
anymore. I said, well, what are you talking
about? He said, well, Vincent Solano is dead now.
I said, well, I didn't even know that. That was
the first time I had heard that. So he had said,
well, he is dead. I have no one to turn to.
I said, look: just stay here and I'll
do the work for you.
Q: Did you underhand, did you have
an
understanding about what Mr. Fosco meant when he
said to you, Vincent Solano is dead I have nobody
to turn to?
Q: What did you understand that to
mean?
A: That his contact man, Solano, was no
longer around, and he had no one to turn to, and
someone else was calling the shots, which he did
not have a friendly relationship with,
Q: Contact with whom?'
A: The Mob.
Q: Was he referring you think to the
District Council or the local unions
in Chicago?
Q: What else, if anything, did you
say in
A: That was, I said we have done so much,
I've tried to do so much in the union, and here you
are, trying to take it down, and I'm not going to
stand for it. As a matter of fact, if that is, and
you can convince the Board to have him succeed you,
I will quit. And I will take the key people in
this organization in this building back to New
England with me. And that was a seeking out people
like Carl Booker or Steve Hammond, people that made
the operation run effectively.
And that was the end of the conversation
Q: Is that everything you can recall that
A: I think so. He just sat there and
listened to me. I was very upset with him. I was
banging the table. I said this, you can't do
this. You can't do this to these people. You
can' t do it to people like Booker and Ellysie and
Hammond and the rest of the people down there. You
Q: And apart from his comment about
Mr.
Solano being dead, did he say anything in response
to this?
A: No, no.
Q Now after you left his office that day,
did you form some sort of strategy or plan about
how you were going to deal with the threat that Mr.
Fosco would retire and designate Mr. Serpico as his
A: Well, I'd have to reach out now to the
Board, and subtly. I didn't tell anybody what
happened, the way it happened
I said that he is anticipating retiring
and what their position would be, subtly.
But about a month or two, month after
that, he got sick: Angelo Fosco got sick, might have
been a month or two after that
And I had learned from the family that
he was very sick, very sick. There was rumors
around that he may not ever come back to the office
again; he was that ill. At that point
-
Q Did that lead you to believe that things
might be imminent in terms of his
succession?
A: Yes. I stepped up the politicking
issue. I informed the Board that he was very ill.
I didn't want to make anybody panic over it. But I
started the - I had to tell them also, because I
didn't want anyone to pull any rugs out from under
anyone.
So it was a process of him or his health
Q: And you say this is - when was this in
time, just so we are clear on the
sequence?
Q: Of 1992?
Q: What happened next, if you recall?
A: Well, I was getting reports or rumors,
whatever, statements back from Chicago on the
condition of his health, both from the family and
A: That he was doing poorly, very
poor.
Q: What else did you hear, if anything.?
A: That he we going into the hospital. He
was at one time in a coma. I also heard that John
Matassa and John Serpico were going
to the house.
MR. LYDON: I'll object. unless we have some
foundation for this as well. Even though it is
hearsay, we ought to know where, when, who was
present
MR. LUSKJN: I'll try and connect up
the dots
MR. LYDON: Wait. It is better than
connecting up the dots. I'm asking for a
foundation. He is starting to relate a
conversation that he heard. Where did he hear?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I think that's fair.
I think it is fair to describe it, in what fashion
he heard. We can certainly hear hearsay, if it is
third-party, rumors, so forth, at least identify
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: With respect to what you are about to
start telling me and start to say something about
Mr. Matassa and Mr. Serpico. whom did you hear
those reports from?
A: Well, Carl Booker had a close
relationship with the family. So Marie Fosco was
relating as to his health condition to Carl, and as
I had gotten information back also from
Bruce Monaco, not to me directly, through either
John LeConche. who was a training director for
A: Lou Ellysie was a head of a department
down in Washington. He was head of contractual
maintenance department.
Q: Tell us who Bruce Monaco is, by the
A: Bruce Monaco is Angelo's or was Angelo's
stepson. Now, I don't know. I heard that they
were going there. I don't know the amounts of
time, how often.
MR. LYDON: He heard this from all of these
people?
Yes.
MR. LYDON: Or who specifically here?
MR. LUSKIN: Let me ask a question.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Direct him and have
him delineate, if he knows.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: First, what did you hear from Mr.
Booker, from Marie Fosco though Mr. Booker,
about -
A: You have to understand, these people
are very concerned, not only of the health of
Anglo Fosco, but they were concerned about the
future of the union. Carl Booker -
MR. LYDON: I object to that. This is not
responsive to the question. I can't just let him
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I understand
that.
BY THE WITNESS:
A: But people
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: He has to give a
little bit of background as to the, as I understand
it, the person's health is deteriorating, and he is
getting reports.
It is in this context I think he is
giving this. Now, without going into something
elaborate, could you direct it, so we can get to
transmission of the information?
Q: Sure. What were you hearing, first
focusing on Mr. Booker, what were you hearing back
from Mr. Booker that he related to you that he was
hearing from Marie Fosco, Mr. Fosco's wife? What
A: He would talk to her daily, to find out
Angelo's condition. And he would report it to me,
because in a sense, I was running the union in that
position. I had to know where, what condition he
was in. I had to know that. And he would report
back to me.
Q: And apart from Mr. Fosco's health, what
else did you hear from Mr. Booker?
A: That John Matasssa and John Serpico were
visiting him often. And that concerned
me.
A: Based upon Angelo's statement a few
months earlier, and based upon the 1989 airport
Q: Now, did you hear- now, focusing on
what you heard from Mr. Monaco, through Mr.
LeConche or Mr. Ellysie, were you hearing similar
reports from them to what you heard back from Mr.
Booker?
MR. LYDON: I object to the leading. You can
have him relate what he heard from
these people.
A: Well, it wasn't similar really. It
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: What did you hear?
Just differentiate, what did you hear from Monaco?
What did you hear from LeConche?
MR. LUSKIN: I think he said Monaco was a
source, and that was through either Mr. LeConche
BY MR. LUSKIN:
A: Yes. I didn't speak to Monaco
personally. Monaco gave updates to LeConche on a
few occasions, he gave updates as to health;
Ellysie and Mazza also. Mazza was the regional
manager in Chicago. He would give me updates as to
Q: And either through Mr. Monaco or from
Mazza, did you also hear anything about visits
by Mr. Matassa and Mr. Serpico?
A: Who said what at what time and how many
times, this was a general, general conveyance to
me, as to health and as to politicking, that was
getting back to me, so that these people know that
Q: Did there come a -
A: Some of it wasn't solicited. Some just
Q: Did there come a time in this period,
November or December of 1992, that you actually
went to Chicago yourself?
A: Yes, during Christmastime.
A: I went to see Angelo myself. His
condition got somewhat better, somewhat in the
sense that he was in the hospital. He wasn't in a
severely critical state. But he was in a terminal
state. I don't know how to explain that. I'm not
a doctor. But he was doing better but not good.
Q: He wasn't going to recover, would that
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Mr. Coia, who's
running the union at this time?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA : Is that by terms
of your office succession as General
secretary or-
THE WITNESS: No. I assume it - I was
running it, I mean but there is no provision in
the Constitution at that point.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Political reality, you
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Had you in fact been assuming a lot of
responsibilities of Mr. Fosco in the preceding
A: that was okay, because I indicated to
him, if he wanted to - do not retire, and I would
do his duties for him It just so happens that two
Q: So if I understand ,you actually offered
to him, if you stay on, I'll do the
job?
A: Yes, that's right.
So I went to, I was in- I came to
Chicago to visit him in the hospital. It was
A: Yes.
A: .Marie Fosco, and Terry Healy,
and I.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Mr. Healy is a union
official here in Chicago?
THE WITNESS: Yes. He is the new regional
manager in Chicago. He replaced Joe
Mazza.
A: They were there. And when I got into
the room, Angelo excused there. He wanted to talk
to me privately. So they left the room
And the first thing he said, I want you
to know, Arthur, that John is taking over. And in
the same breath, Peter Fosco will replace John as
vice-president, which is my son, and Terry Healy
will be the regional manger.
And the amazing thing is, he didn't give
me a chance to say, how are you, how are you
feeling, how is my family. I mean first thing out
of his mouth was, John is taking over.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Did you say anything in response?
A: Yeah, I said, Angelo, you're crazy.
You know I will not go along with that. I will not
permit it. And as I told you before, if that ever
happens. I have to quit.
And by the way, I didn't want to upset
the man. I said, why don't you concentrate on
getting better, and we'll discuss it another time.
I stayed there about another 15 minutes, and then I
Q: And in the other 15 minutes, did you
have any other conversations on this subject
matter?
A: No. It would only- it - too
emotional. I didn't want to get into
that.
Q: Now, focusing on the period of time
between Christmas of '92 and the General Executive
Board meeting on Mr. Fosco's death, which testimony
was established is in early February of 1993, what
if anything did you do concerning the question of
who would succeed Mr. Fosco as President?
A: I made some telephone calls to Board
members, told them his condition was bad; I saw it
firsthand.
I waited, as time went on, and the whole
board came to Washington for the Presidential
inauguration, which was I believe the second week
in January. I got the whole board there, spoke to
them individually, told them that it did not look
like Angelo was going to recover, and I would like
their support, if in fact he died. It wasn't a
question of, if in fact he retired. And they all
Q: Did you solicit Mr. Serpico's support.'
Q: Is there anybody else on the Board who
A: Mr. Vinall
A: Well, I thought he was quite friendly
with Mr. Serpico.
He has been on the Board the longest,
and I didn't - I didn't think it was
appropriate.
Q: Moving ahead to the G E.B. meetings in
February of 1993, did there come a time when you
heard that Mr. Fosco was actually going to leave
his bed and come down to those meetings?
A: The Executive Board meeting was the
second week in February, second week. .And he got
out of his bed and got a private plane to come down
to Florida. I couldn't believe it. That's what
Q: Why couldn't you believe it?
A: Well, the man was seriously sick. He
was blown up. It was, his whole body was distended
from fluid. He couldn't pass it. I mean, his
If you seen a person that is sick with
cancer, or kidney failure, that is
what happened.
Q: What significance, if any, did you
attach to his willingness to get on a plane and fly
down to Florida in that condition?
Q: Yes.
A: He was coming down to gather support
from the Board to endorse John Serpico to replace
Q: What happened next? Did he do that?
A: No, He died on February 11, which was
the third or fourth day of our meetings.
Q: When you heard about his death on
February l 1, what time of the day was that, Mr.
Coia?
A: Approximately 3:00.
Q: What did you do next?
A: Well, we had an office at the Americana,
which is like a cabana setup there. And most of
the vice-presidents were there. And those that
weren't, I sent someone out to get them, and told
them that he had died. Most had heard. And I
indicated to them that were - we would have an
election the next day to replace Angelo.
Q: So did you in fact have a meeting with
all the vice president members of the G.E.B.
A: Yes, everyone was present, yes: told
them that there would be an election the next day.
I did that for a couple of reasons.
One, I did not want to, I personally did not want
to go back to Chicago to have an election after his
A: There was a whole bunch of problems that
happened during Angelo's election in 1975. I don't
know if they were true or not. But they were
reported, that there was bad politicking going on.
And I didn't want that to happen.
Q: What do you mean by bad politicking?
How specific can you be here? What happened in
MR. LYDON: Objection, foundation, as to who
A: It is bad politicking
HEARING OFFICER VIARA: Time out. There is an
objection on the record.
What is your objection Mr. Lydon?
MR. LYDON: My objection is one of
foundation He is now alluding to a conversation
again or it has to be conversation He was asked
what he heard, I'd like to know where and when he
heard it, from whom, who else was
present
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Just a moment, sir,
MR. LUSKIN: We are going about his state of
mind here.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: He is talking about
his state of mind. He said he doesn't know whether
it is true or not. He said it is something he is
reacting upon. It is reasonable to as him, what
was this, quote, "bad politics," and how did he
hear it, to give it some credibility.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I think that ought to
be the question. Mr. Lydon wants a foundation, as
good as you can give a foundation, because he says
it is giving his state of mind.
MR. LUSKIN: I'll furnish as much of a
foundation as the witness can.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Along those
lines.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Rephrase your
questions.
MR. LUSKIN: Fine, that's fine.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I have a question.
When you finish this particular conversation - it
is about 20 after 12, we are going to go the rest
of the afternoon - can we finish this
conversation and take a break? Is
that all right?
MR. LUSKIN: That is fine.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Finish this little
scenario about his state of mind, what he heard.
Then we will break for about half an hour. I mean
MR. LUSKIN: Okay.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Mr. Coia, when you talk about bad
politics that you associated with Chicago and the
election of Angelo Fosco, what do
you mean?
A: That was reported-that there was some
Mob influence in the President's Commission on
Organized Crime report that that went on in 1975.
I don't know if it was true or not. But
based upon everything that unfolded from me from
1989 to 1992. I placed some truth in that.
So I didn't want that to happen. And if
I was going to be elected the General President, I
didn't want that to be surrounding my tenure in
office, nor did I want to expose anybody on that
Board to any what I'd call bad politicking.
That is the No. 1 reason.
No. 2, Carl Booker was with the family
when Angelo died. He went there at my direction.
because it looked like he was not going to make
it.
And I asked him to inquire of the
family, which is Marie Fosco, whether they had any
preference of having the election immediately, or
And she said that she would prefer to
have it immediately, so there would not be any kind
of distractions while the wake was going on and the
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I think now we can
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Off the record.
recessed until 1:20 p.m., this
date,
OFFICE OF THE INDEPEDENT HEARING OFFICER
LABORERS' INTERNATIONAL UNION OF NORTH
IN THE MATTER OF )
BEFORE MR. PETER F. VAIRA, HEARING
OFFICER.
COMEY, BOYD & LUSKIN.
2828 Pennsylvania Avenue. N.W. Suite 200.
Washington, D C. 20007-3763),by:
MR. ROBERT D. LUSKIN.
appeared on behalf of the G.E.B.
(35 West Wacker Drive, Chicago, 60601 9703),
appeared on behalf of John Serpico.
ALSO PRESENT
REPORTED) BY: MARY K.AY BELCOLORE.
CSR.
Page 1110
ARTHUR A. COIA,
called as a witness herein, having been previously
duly sworn and having testified was examined and
DIRECT EXAMATION (Resumed)
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Mr. Coia, when we broke for lunch, you
were, you had just finished answering the reason,
giving us the reasons why you wanted to hold the
election in Miami the next day, rather than
postpone it to Chicago.
After the General Executive Board
meeting that afternoon of the 11th, did you have
occasion to meet with Mr. Serpico that afternoon or
evening?
A: After I notified the Board of the
death -
A: - and the election, I then had written
a formal notification, given to each Board member
at their hotel room, as to the time and place of
the election, which would be the following day,
which I believe was Friday, which was the 12th.
After the meeting- it wasn't a formal
meeting, I mean, everyone was there. I made an
announcement as to what was happening. I went to
the Fosco house, paid my respects. I went there
with my wife, and stayed there for a couple of
And then I had something to eat, and
then I came back to the hotel
Q: Did you see Mr. Serpico at any time that
afternoon or evening after this meeting?
A: He was at the meeting. Then after
the meeting -
A: - this 'was around 8 or 9:00 at night,
when I came back to the hotel, I saw
him in the lobby.
Q: Were you with anyone at that time?
A: I was with my wife, Armand Sabitoni,
and Albert Lepore.
A: Sabitoni at that time was regional
manager of New England, and now he is a
vice-president and New England regional
manager.
Q: And how about Albert Lepore? Who
is he?
A: Albert Lepore is a friend of mine.
Q: Was Mr. Serpico with anybody, or was he
Q: Did you two have a conversation?
A: Yes. I went over to him and we spoke.
He said that, I guess I got this all
wrapped up - meaning me - with respect to the
General Presidency and then he asked me, do you
think I could be General secretary/treasurer?
Q: What did you say in response?
A: I said no; Jim Norwood I would like as
General secretary/treasurer. And not only that, it
wouldn't be appropriate, John, to be
secretary/treasurer, again because of the history
that goes back to '86, '89, and the innuendo
allegations, that I had heard and then personally
experienced
A: Well, not in those kind of words. I
just said -
Q: Give me the words as best you can
recall.
A Oh, the words: no, you can't be
secretary/treasurer, there's too much baggage that
you have to bring to that position, for the union.
Those are the words.
Q: What if anything did he say in
response?
A: He said that he would like to see me the
following morning, that he would like me to meet
with a friend of his.
A: I asked him what time. He said 7:00. I
said fine. I'll meet you then.
Q: Did you ask him then who that friend
was?
A: John Matassa.
Q: What did you do next?
A: Well. I then spoke to Armand and Albert,
and went over the conversation that had developed.
And the three of us decided that I would not speak
to the two of them together in the lobby the next
Q: Can you tell me why?
A: Because of the cloud around the both of
Q: So what did happen the next morning?
Did you meet with Mr. Serpico or Mr.
Matassa?
A: The next morning, Albert, myself and
Armand went downstairs in the lobby at 7:00, and
Matassa was not there. John said that he would not
be coming.
Q: Well, let me stop you there. Was Mr.
Q: Did you have a conversation with Mr.
Serpico?
Q: Was anyone else within earshot?
Q: Was this a private conversation?
A: I talked to him alone. Armand and
Albert were just off to the side.
Q: Tell me what you can recall about that
A: Well, he said that Matassa wasn't
coming, and that he would like to have a job with
the union. And I said, well, I have to think about
it. He says, well, I'd like to have a job, because
I'd like to build up some pension. I only want to
work a couple of years, until I'm 68. I said I
would think about it.
And he also asked me if Peter Fosco
could replace Jim Norwood in his Vice-president
position.
Q: What did you say in response?
A: I said no-that Jack Wilkinson-who has
been regional manager for at least 20 years, and he
had promoted all the programs, to doing a lot of
good things for his region, and that I am going to
Q: Now, explain for me if you can, why
giving Mr. Serpico a job would build up his
pension. I' m not sure I understand
that.
A: Well, he was making $20,000 a year as a
vice-president. And by giving him a job to add to
the salary, it would increase his level of benefits
by increasing the salary. And by giving him a job,
job, and appropriate salary, that would increase
the level of benefits. That is basically
-
Q: Do I understand the -?
A: Increase the level of benefits is really
Q: Thereafter, did the G.E.B. in fact meet
and hold an election that morning?
A: - about an hour later. I was elected
General President and Jim Norwood General
secretary/treasurer and Jack Wilkinson elected to
the vacant vice-president position. They were, all
of us were elected unanimously.
Q: Now, shortly thereafter, did you in fact
give Mr. Serpico a job?
A: He was a hearing officer, panel hearing
officer.
Q: And do you recall what salary he was to
get for being a hearing panel officer?
A: That was the same as a regional
manager's salary, which at the time I believe was
Q: And that was in addition to the $20,000
that he was earning as vice-president?
A: In addition to that, he would be
receiving $20,040 as a vice-president, as an
Executive Board member.
Q: Let me stop and ask you, Mr. Coia, and
you have testified and indicated that you think
that Mr. Serpico was influenced by organized crime,
was under the direction of Mr. Solano, and that you
thought is was your duty to the union to ensure
that he didn't succeed Angelo Fosco as president
Why did you give him a job as hearing
officer, which sounds like a responsible
position?
A: Well, I gave him a job knowing that he
would leave in a couple of years. That was the way
of doing it easily. I gave him a position of
hearing officer, which is not really a - it sounds
responsible but it is really not. There is no
financial responsibility attached to it. There is
autonomous decisions that come out from that
He would accompany another
vice-president to hear regular charges or regular
issues that would come before the panel. He was a
fact-finder basically, which would be accompanied
That panel makes a recommendation to the
Board, and then the Board votes on whether the
recommendation should be followed or not. And the
final decision process is with the Board,
basically or is, not basically.
Q: And as the hearing panel officer would
Mr. Serpico or did Mr. Serpico have the ability to
hire other persons to positions?
Q: Now following your election you told
us before about certain jobs that you believe were
no-show jobs held by people in Chicago whom you
believed, based on your conversations with Mr.
Fosco, were put in those positions, by people
associated with organized crime.
Did you do anything about that?
A: Yes.
Q: What did you do?
A: I indicated that, when I got into
Washington, and learned the operation and the
regional offices more thoroughly, there were
certain things that had to be corrected. Certain
structures had so be changed, certain positions,
So approximately six weeks later, with
respect to the no-show positions, I terminated
Matassa, Caruso, Palermo and Dumo, which is out of
MR. LYDON: Could I have those names
again?
THE WITNESS: Matassa, Dumo, Palermo, and
Caruso.
Q: Frank Caruso or Bruno Caruso?
A: I transferred Joe Mazza
who was the regional manager; which in my opinion I
felt he couldn't handle that job, and replaced him
Now, Terry Healy was the best on that
I also appointed as an assistant
regional manager Bruno Caruso, who I personally had
the most faith in, in the Chicago region. He was a
hard worker, dedicated, was committed to the
programs. And personally, I wanted so put him as
he familiarized himself with that region, as a
regional manager at some time.
I also implemented a compliance program'
which I had suggested to Angelo Fosco to do, headed
by three of our vice-presidents, which was George
Gudger, Chuck Bonds and Bud Vinall, assisted by
I upgraded our auditing program, put
additional auditors on, with additional functions
and additional responsibilities.
I restructured regions in Atlanta,
Chicago; terminated a regional manager that I felt
was not performing as a regional manager should to
promote our programs and to enhance the members'
position in Atlanta.
encouraged -excuse me- I encouraged the
retirement of Lcdger Diamond, who had been a
long time member of the Board who was not assigned
to any particular duties, with George Gudger.
Jack Wilkinson I said came on the
Board. Louis Bravo, he retired; replaced him with
Mike Quevedo, who I felt also had a deeper
understanding of the Hispanic community.
MR. LYD0N: How do you spell that?
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Let me move on. A few weeks later-
A: One other thing I forgot. There were
jobs that I had discovered through reviewing LM-2
forms, when I was a secretary-treasurer that
people had two and three of, and receiving two and
three salaries, which I singled out and corrected.
So I did a lot of things. I mean, I did
a lot of things, that structure, restructured
headquarters, developed new programs, new
departments, and basically was working towards a
good goal in the compliance program, good goal to
auditing and restructuring.
Q: A few weeks after your election,
February 12, 1993, did you have occasions to talk
again with Mr. Serpico, in Mr. Serpico's presence,
about your succession to the Presidency?
A: Yes. My father died on March 4. And
John Serpico and John Matassa came to the funeral.
And that was the next time I talked to the both of
them, the next time I talked to John Serpico with
John Matassa
Q: And did you have a conversation about
A: Yes. Well, the day of the funeral ,John
asked me to come and talk to his friend, John
Matassa
And we went off to the side, and John
Q: Le: me stop you. When you went off to
the side, who's together here?
A: John Matassa. John Serpico and
myself.
Q: So John, while I talked to the two of
them, John Matassa did the talking this time and
said that he didn't like and the boys here did not
.like what I did by stealing and taking the
Presidency from Chicago.
Q: By "boys" here - you were in Providence
at the time - who were you referring
to?
Q: Was that the term he used?
A: That's the term he used, yeah.
Q: What if anything did you say in
A: I said, I don't care what you think
Q: Let's skip way ahead, Mr. Coia. In
November of 1994, did you receive notice that the
Department of Justice was contemplating filing a
civil RICO action against the Laborers'
Union?
A: I was in Rhode Island. And I know it
was November 5th. I was in Rhode Island, I
received a telephone call from the then general
He indicated to me that he had received
a letter from the Department of Justice, indicating
that they wanted to sit down to discuss issues that
were formulated in a draft civil RICO complaint.
That was on a Saturday, November 5th.
Q: And thereafter, did you have an
opportunity to review the Complaint.'
A: Yes. I was in Washington And I
reviewed it with Bob Connerton on
November 7.
Q: Let me show you what has previously been
molded as Serpico Exhibit 6 and ask if you can
identify that as the draft RICO complaint.
Q: Let me show you a letter dated November
4, to Connerton from Paul Coffey, chief of the
organized crime and racketeering section, ask you
if that is the letter that accompanied the draft
complaint.
Q: In reviewing the complaint. Mr. Coia,
did you understand that the complaint, the draft
complaint made certain allegations against you
personally?
Q: You understand that you were named as an
individual defendant in the proposed draft RICO
complaint.'
Q: Did you understand that the Department
of Justice in the dust civil RICO complaint was
seeking relief that would have barred you from
continuing to serve as General President of the
Q: Did you see that it also makes certain
allegations against John Serpico?
A: Yes.
Q: Was Mr. Serpico named in his individual
Q: Yes.
Q: Did the suit allege that he was an
associate of organized crime in Chicago?
A: Yes.
Q In the draft complaint, is what
I'm -
Q: And did the draft complaint also make
certain allegations against vice president Sam
Caivano?
A: Yes. They indicated that he was an
associate of certain crime families in New York and
New Jersey.
Q: And was Mr. Caivano named in his
individual capacity?
Q: Now. when you received this suit - or
I'm sorry, this proposed draft complaint, the
letter from Mr. Coffey, did you understand what
your response - What was expected
of you or the
union, I should say, in response?
A: Yes. They indicated that they had put
forth certain contentions, and the type of relief
that they sought. They indicated that they would
like the union, me, to get back to them on November
18, by November 18.
I contacted you, Bob Luskin.
Q: Let me stop you right here.
Q I want to go over these questions.
Now, did that proposed draft civil RICO
complaint occupy most of your attention over that
week and the beginning of the following
week?
A: Well, we had a civil RICO case that was
filed on one of our affiliates in New York, which
was the Mason Tenders. And we had just received
approximately eight volumes of material, evidence,
depositions concerning allegations of wrongdoing
And that weekend, I was going through
some of that, and Monday also, because I had to
consider imposing an emergency trusteeship on that
So most of my attention was in the Mason
Tender case as opposed to this one. This one, we
had until November 18 to get back. And they were
contentions, versus the real thing
in the Mason
Tenders, and some serious allegation
of
wrong doing, and money that was taken
from their funds.
Q: Let me digress for a second to the Mason
Tender case. Did the evidence that the government
has provided to you in that case, that you
described a minute ago, almost about the same time
you received this draft civil RICO complaint from
the Department of Justice, did it matte specific
allegations against Sam Caivano?
A: Yes.
Q: Was there evidence that you saw that Mr.
Caivano was associated with organized crime
families in New York, and that they influenced his,
influenced, excuse me, his actions as regional
manager?
MR. LYDON: Excuse me, was in the Mason
MR. LUSKIN: In the Mason Tenders,
yes.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Was there evidence there that you
Q: Now, on November 9, 1994, did you call a
meeting of the General Executive Board?
Q: What was the purpose of that meeting?
One, I wanted to inform them that I had
imposed an emergency trusteeship in the Mason
Tenders District Council case. I wanted their
support for it. Constitutionally I didn't need it.
But I wanted to inform them of what happened
there. And secondly, to inform them that we had
received this draft complaint which incorporated
certain relief that the government wanted: and
also, that they wanted to speak to a legal
representative of the union I had, and that is what
I called them for.
Q: And by then, by November 9, had you and
I spoken, and you had made a tentative decision to
recommend me as counsel for LIUNA in dealing with
A: Yes. You were at that meeting on
Q: Did you propose that I be retained at
that meeting on the 9th,
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Did the Board agree to that?
Q: Now, shortly thereafter, did you get a
formal notice from me that you ought to consider
retaining independent counsel in connection with
this proposed civil RICO complaint?
Q: Did I indicate to you -
MR. LYDON: Excuse me. Was this, you said
formal; is there some letter? Is that what you
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Written, by written communication?
A: Yes, written communication, yes,
yes.
Q: And in fact, did you retain separate
A: I did. I retained counsel the end of
November of '94
Q: Now. focusing your attention on the
period between November 9 and December 15, were you
aware during that time period that I conducted
several meetings with the Department of Justice
concerning the proposed draft civil
RICO complaint?'
Q: And you were aware then, were you
not -
MR. LYDON: I'm going to object to leading at
MR. LUSKIN: All right, sorry. I'll rephrase.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q: Any time during that period, did you or
to your knowledge anybody else associated with
LIUNA ask or direct me to suggest to the Department
of Justice in any way some sort of trade in which
relief against you by the Department of Justice
would be dropped, and Mr. Serpico would be
Q: Are you aware of that ever happening
during that period of time.,
Q: Are you aware of any discussions which
suggested that I might have done that unilaterally
on my own?
Q: Let me show you what has been previously
marked for identification as Serpico Exhibit 15.
Were you aware sometime, did you learn
some time in mid December, in connection with the
discussions that have been going on between LIUNA's
counsel and the Department of Justice, that the
Department of Justice had decided to make a formal
proposed settlement offer of the draft civil RICO
A: Yes.
Q: And did you understand that Exhibit 15
was the Justice Department's proposal to resolve
A: That's right.
Q: Was a copy of that furnished to you on
Q: Let me ask you, if you will, to turn to
Page 8 of that exhibit.
MR. LYDON: Could we just hold it for
a minute?
MR. LYDON: I thought I had my copy.
And I don't.
Q: I'm on Page 8 now. Directing your
attention to the Page 8 heading, which says, Status
of Current G.EB. Members, did you understand that
this, the Department of Justice's proposed consent
decree, called for a permanent injunction against
John Serpico, Sam Caivano and Robert
Connerton?
A: Yes.
Q: And did you read this document carefully
A: I certainly did.
Q: Did it call for any relief against
you?
A: No.
Q: Did it identify you individually in any
Q: Did you or to your knowledge anybody'
working on behalf of LIUNA have any hand in
O: What did you understand it to be?
A: This was a government proposal.
government prepared consent decree, which they were
Q: And after you reviewed it, what was your
A: Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, I
Q: Now, if I understand it, if LIUNA. if
you had recommended that this consent decree be
examined by the G.E.B. and the G.E.B. had approved
it there would have been no risk as far as you
are concerned that the government would have
sought to permanency enjoin you from any
association with the union, is that
right?
A: Yeah. This would have been the end of
the case; would have enjoined Serpico, Caivano and
Connerton. And here was no mention of me. That
is what my understanding was. And it would have
Q: So was it your understanding that if you
had agreed to the government's proposal on December
15, that the threat of litigation would have ended,
and that you would not have been disturbed in any
way in your office as General President
of LIUNA?
A: That's right.
Q: I ask again, did you agree or recommend
that the union agree to these terms?
A: I absolutely rejected this.
A: Because it wasn't good for the union or
the people involved.
Q: What do you mean by that? Let's talk
about good for the union to begin
with.
A: It wouldn't have been good for the union
because of other conditions in this consent decree;
would have put more control, control with the
It would have permanently enjoined three
individuals from holding any position, not given
them any right of due process and they would have
been out of the union completely. And I don't
Q: Do you know whether or not counsel for
LIUNA indicated to the government that LIUNA would
not accept those terms?
Q: As an alternative, do you know whether
LIUNA proposed, made a counterproposal to the
A: Yes. I directed you to go back and make
Q: Let me show you what has previously been
marked and is really only a portion of Serpico Exhibit 16.
Since that was a group exhibit, let me
identify specifically the documents that I'm going,
It is a contract, a consent decree, and
what appears to be a draft complaint captioned,
United States of America Laborers' International
Union of North America the G E B of Laborers'
International Union of North America, and Arthur
A. Coia, General President. Again, there is a long
string of defendants.
Let me ask you whether or not this
constituted LIUNA's counterproposal to the
government in response to their proposed consent
decree.
A: Yes, it was, and is, or whatever.
Q: Did you have an opportunity to review it
A: Yes. I did.
Q: Does any aspect of the contract or the
consent decree or the complaint call for any
permanent injunctive relief or any other kind of
a disability to be imposed on Mr. Serpico, Mr.
Caivano, Mr. Connerton or you,
A: No. There is no injunctive relief,
no.
Q: Moving ahead to January 4, do you recall
whether the terms of this counterproposal were
presented to the General Executive Board at a
General Executive Board meeting on
January 4?
A: Yes.
Q: And what was the response of the General
MR. LYDON: Wait I'd like to object and ask
that if we are going to get into this at this
point, I realize your need to lead in other areas,
but let's have foundation and what happened and who
MR. LYDON: Thanks.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: You agree? I don't
MR. LUSKIN: Don't have to rule. I'll be
happy to rephrase the question
Q: Turning your attention to the meeting of
January 4.1995, let me ask you whether or not the
terms of this proposal were presented to the
General Executive Board for its review at that
meeting.
A: They were.
Q: Tell me if you can recall now what
happened in connection with that.
MR. LYDON: Well, who is at the meeting, okay,
other then - I'd like a foundation laid in other
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Set the stage. He
went to the meeting: who was there, who said what.
and detailing whatever importance, whatever
seriousness you want to -
Q: Were all the members of the Executive
A: Yes. We had a number of meetings during
this period of time. I believe that one of the
vice-presidents was not there but he was hooked up
by telephone with a speaker. I believe that was
that meeting. His name was Chuck Bonds. The rest
of the Board was there.
MR. LYDON: Just a minute. Were there any
other persons there other than the
G.E.B.?
MR. LYDON: Anybody else?
BY MR. LUSKIN:
A: Carl Booker
Q: What position -
A: Do you have the minutes? It would be
reflected.
Q: They were introduced. We ought to have
the exhibit. Let me give them to you.
Let me show you what has previously been
marked as Serpico Exhibit 9, minutes of the January
4 meeting.
A: Okay yes. This is, the meeting on
January 4 is again - I thought so - Chuck Bonds .
was not physically present but was hooked in by
way of a telephone hookup and heard the meeting ,
and asked some questions..
Who was there other than the Board? Was
that your question?
Q: Do you recall whether Mr.Traini
was present.?
Q: During that period of time, what
function was Mr. Traini serving?
A: He was doing legal work for the
union.
Q: What was his title if he had one?
Q: Moving ahead to the report of the
Justice Department investigation do you recall
whether Mr. Connerton was excused from the meeting
at that point?
A: Yes he was and the reason I suggested
that he be excused was that in the letter that we
had received from the Justice Department which
contained the November 4 letter which contained
the draft complaint they indicated that Connerton
would probably be called as a witness or would be
a material witness in the case.
So I suggested that he be excused. And
Q: Now again I'll ask you, at some point
during the meeting was a presentation made to the
Board outlining the terms of the proposal that were
reflected in government Exhibit 16?
A: Yes.
Q: Who made that presentation?
A: I don't know if I did or you did to be
Q: Take a look at exhibit, bottom of Page 4
and top of Page 5 of Exhibit 9. Let me a5k if that
refreshes your recollection of how the presentation
Q: Bottom of Page 4 top of Page 5.
A: Yes. Yeah, you presented it.
Q: After that presentation was there some
discussion among the members of the
G.E.B.?
A: Yes. there was.
Q: Okay.
A: As a matter of fact. I recommended that
if we could get this particular proposal that was
put together by us I recommended to the Board that
we should enter into it and to give you the
latitude that was necessary in negotiations to get
Q: Did anyone make any objections to that
A: The entire Board thought that a good
idea with the exception of John Serpico, who said
that he wanted his attorney to look at it first
before he would vote to give you the latitude.
The Board wanted to vote on it then.
And I said, as a result of the allegations that
are made and the seriousness of them, that I think
we should give John an opportunity to have it
viewed by his own attorney And that is how it
Q: Did you understand whether Mr. Serpico's
attorney was present in the G. E B
that afternoon?
A: Not that afternoon, no. He was given
the contract and the proposed consent decree, and
Q: Do you know whether or not this
proposal
MR. LYDON: Excuse me. When was that? You
MR. LYDON: When it was given to Mr.
Serpico?
THE WITNESS: He was given the contract and
Q And that's the document that we have
identified as Serpico Exhibit 16?
A: Yes.
Q: Because we have two things that are
called consent decrees out here, and I want to be
A: Exhibit 16.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: That is the one you
fellows drew?
Q Do you know whether or not this proposal
was in fact submitted to the government for their
Q: What was the government's reaction?
A: They rejected it
Q: Did you understand what the government's
position was?
MR. LYDON: Can we have a foundation for that
as well?
MR. LUSKIN: Sure.
MR. LYDON: Did you have a conversation with
someone; who, where, when.
BY THE WITNESS.
A: You came, you Bob Luskin, came back to
me and told me that they rejected this proposal,
and they were insisting on their proposal that was
given to you, or that proposed consent decree on
December 14, which was Exhibit 15.
Q: In light of the government's rejection
of Serpico Exhibit 16 and their insistence on
Serpico 15 did you then recommend or try and
recommend or consider recommending that the Board
adopt Exhibit 15, the government's proposed consent
decree?
A: No. I would never enter into that type
A: Yeah. I would never enter into that
consent decree which is Exhibit 15.
Q: Now, between January 4, shortly
thereafter, when you learned the government
rejected that proposed resolution and January 18,
when the Board next met, did you come up with an
alternative plan for addressing the threat of
A: The plan that I suggested that we do.
and it may have been a mutual idea. I'm not sure,
MR. LYDON: Can we pause? If it is mutual,
I'd like to know who mutual with.
BY THE WITNESS:
A: - as again attorney for LIUNA and
myself; we sat down many hours to review what had
transpired.
It appeared that litigation that we
were going to actually be sued by the government.
And I wanted to get into some posture that in the
event there was a suit, any restraining order, or
injunctive relief would not be granted.
So the best way that we could do this
was to develop a disciplinary procedure and ethics
code and developing that procedure to get a
permanent department of an Inspector General,
General Executive Board, G.E.B Attorney, Hearings
Officer, and an Appellate Officer, which would then
hear any case, and be decided, whether anyone that
was accused would have a fair due
process hearing.
BY MR. LUSKIN:
Q And again, before January 18, did you in
conjunction with your attorneys actually develop
those specific document that would be adopted by
Q: Now, as of January 18, did you have any
agreement with the government?
Q: What was your understanding of the state
of the negotiations between LIUNA and the Justice
A: We could be sued any day.
Q: Particularly, did you have any agreement
with the government concerning the removal or
suspension of Mr. Serpico, Mr. Caivano or Mr.
Connerton?
A: No.
Q: Did you have any promises or pledges
from the government that if you took action against
those individuals, the government wouldn't file a
lawsuit?
MR. LYDON: Object, lack of foundation for
that, if you are going to suggest that there were
MR. LUSKIN: No. I'm asking if he was aware
of whether there were any such things.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: He can answer the
MR. LYDON: I just wanted to make sure of what
the question was.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: He can answer the
A: There was no agreement There was no
promises. There was no agreement.
Q let me show you what we will mark as
G.E.B. Exhibit 18, minutes of the Board meeting on
January 18. Did the Board in fact hold a meeting
Q: Who summoned it?'
Q: were all the members of the Board
Q: Were they physically present on the
A: They were physically present. General
counsel Connerton was excused again for the
reasons I mentioned in my, the last
time.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: What are you reading,
gentlemen? Just one second. What are you looking
MR. LUSKIN: G.EB. 18.
MR. LYDON: For the record, this is the
unexcised version of -
MR. LUSKIN: These are unredacted. This is an
unredacted version of the minutes of January 18,
MR. LYDON: Which are identified as Exhibit 10
for Serpico.
MR. LUSKIN: But since we have a different
MR. LUSKIN: Let me, for the purposes of
clarity, let me identify the unredacted minutes as
G.E.B. Exhibit 18.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I see. That is why we
MR. LUSKIN: So there won't be any
confusion. Okay?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Go ahead.
Q: Mr. Coia, was I present at the
meeting?
Q: Were there other lawyers present at that
meeting as well?
Q: Who were they, if you know?
A: The attorney for Mr. Serpico; I believe
his name was Pearl. I'm not sure of his first
name, attorney Stan Brand for Sam Caivano, that's
Q: Let me ask you to turn your attention to
page -
A: I asked their attorneys to be there,
incidentally. The reason they were
there was-
BY THE WITNESS:
A: - I asked them to be there, because we
were deciding on something that was critical to the
union.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Hold it one
second.
MR. LYDON: My question is, is that something
that is reflected in the minutes on any page, or is
it just your recollection?
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I think it is your
first statement about who else was
present.
MR. LYDON: In other words, were you just
giving us your recollections or was this something
that you referred to in the minutes, is all I'm
THE WITNESS: Well, I'll look through the
minutes, but I know they were there.
MR. LYDON: If you were just stating
from your
recollection, that is fine. My question was
whether you were referring to the minutes, and if
so, I wanted to know at what page.
Q: Let me ask you to turn to the page
headed Department of Justice, Department
A: Justice. yes.
Q: Do you recall that I made a presentation
to the General Executive Board about the state of
the negotiations between LIUNA and the Department
Q: And taking a look at the third and
fourth paragraphs on that page -
Q: - does that reflect the report that I
gave? The statements in the minute there, to your
recollection, accurately reflect what I told the
members of the General Executive Board on January
18?
Q: Do you recall that as of January 18,
that where the thing stood was that the differences
between LIUNA and the Department of Justice were
too fundamental a bridge and that no more
negotiations were going to take place
A: That is exactly, right
Q: Did you recommend to the G.EB. that it
adopt the Ethics and Disciplinary
Procedure?
A: Yes, I did. As a matter of fact, I met
with each Board member on the 17th, and spoke with
them individually, to go over the entire case with
them, and to explain to them that we were in a
position that we could be sued at any moment. We
were in a critical position for this union, and
that the appropriate thing for us to do to prepare
ourselves, put us in good litigation posture, in
any event was to develop the disciplinary
I spoke to each of them individually.
with the exception of John Serpico and Sam Caivano,
who had attorneys and they were represented. And
that is what I did.
Q: So you didn't speak to either of
them?
A: I did not speak to them personally, no,
again because they had attorneys. and I didn't
think it was appropriate for me to
do that.
Q: Do you know whether or not I
communicated with their attorneys?
A: Yes, you did, with their attorneys.
MR. LYDON: Okay, that is fine. I don't
think
there is any dispute.
Q: How did you come to have that
understanding, that I communicated with their
attorneys?
A: I told you to, and you told me you did.
And did the Board adopt the Ethics and
Disciplinary Procedure?
A: Yes.
Q: Who cast the dissenting votes?
A: Serpico and Caivano.
Q: And thereafter at this meeting on the
recommendation of the G.EB. attorney, and on your
recommendation, were Mr. Caivano and Mr. Serpico
'suspended from their positions as
vice-presidents?
Q: Do you know whether or not the
government had requested or demanded that LIUNA
Q: Do you know whether the government was
even aware that the Ethics and Disciplinary
Procedure was going to he adopted
on the 18th?
A: They were not aware of that
Q: Now, why did you single out Mr. Caivano
and Mr. Serpico for suspension, Let's start with
Mr. Caivano, why did you single him
out?
A: After we had the ethics code in place, I
personally reviewed all the evidence that was,
submitted to me from the Southern
Distinct of New York.
MR. LYDON: Excuse me. Maybe I am
misunderstanding. Is this after the
ethics code
was in place?
MR. LUSKIN: This is moments after-
MR. LUSKJN: - after it was adopted in the
context of the same meeting.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: You adopted it on
January 18 right?
MR. LUSKIN: Right, in the same meeting, those
two individuals were suspended.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: That ethics code was
proposed and shown to the other G.E.B. Board
members the day before, am I right?
On the 17th?
THE WITNESS: Not the proposed. It was
summarized by me to them. It was summarized. Then
they had a formal copy presented to them at the
Board meeting.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: Okay I see.
A: With respect to the suspension
' BY MR. LUSKJN:
A: - I received eight volumes of evidence.
both depositions and testimony from Allen Taffert
of the Southern District of New York on the Mason
Tenders case, substantial evidence that linked
Caivano to two different crime families.
And as a result of than I took a
position that he would be suspended pending a
hearing as to his guilt or innocence.
Q: Now when you say that the evidence
indicated, the evidence Mr.Taffert had furnished
to you had indicated that he was connected with two
organized crime families in New York based on your
review of the evidence, which you said you did, how
is he connected to the two crime families, in
A: His decisions as a Laborer official were
influenced by them.
Q: What kinds of decisions? Can you be
A: Yes. He handled some trusteeships in
his region. And those trusteeships were, trustees
and the people working under the trustee were
selected by either of these two crime families.
And he put them in position of authority
Q : Now turning to Mr. Serpico why did you
accept the recommendation and second the
recommendation of the G. E B Attorney to suspend
Mr. Serpico pending a disciplinary hearing
in front of the Independent Hearing
Officer?
A: Based on the Crime Commission report
in 86, the testimony there, my own experiences
that developed after that in 89, and my
conversations with Angelo Fosco and my meeting at
Q: Based on those facts did you have a
firm good faith belief whether or not Mr. Serpico
was associated with and permitted organized crime
to influence the affairs of LIUNA?
Q: Was the decision to second the
recommendation to suspend them motivated in any way
by their dissent from the adoption of the Ethics
Q: Do you know whether in fact Mr. Serpico
and Mr. Caivano or their counsel had been advised
before the meeting and before the vote was taken
that you might take some disciplinary action at the
meeting if the ethics code was adopted?
A: Their lawyers were told that.
Q: Now was a decision to accept the
recommendation of the G.E.B. Attorney and recommend
to the G.EB. that they be suspended, as you
understand it part of any kind of trade or
agreement quid pro quo with the government
concerning yourself and your own position
at LIUNA?
Q: Now in mid February of 1995 did LIUNA
finally reach an agreement with the Department of
Justice?
Q: Now, does any part of the agreement
between LIUNA and the Department of Justice
identify specific individuals for disciplinary
action'
Q: As you understand the agreement between
the United States and LIUNA is the success of its
G.EB. attorney in any disciplinary proceedings an
clement of the agreement that LIUNA
must satisfy?
Q: As you understand the agreement with the
Department of Justice, is your testimony or the
testimony of any other officer or employee of LIUNA
any particular disciplinary proceeding an
element of your agreement with the Department of
Justice?
Q: No.
MR. LUSKIN: I have no further question,.
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: We have been at this
about an hour. You need a five minute break?
Mr. Coia, you need a break?
Let's go off the record.
(WHEREUPON, discussion was had
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. LYDON
Q: Mr. Coia, you are a licensed attorney
Q.: When were you licensed to practice
law?
A: I was admitted before the Rhode Island
bar in 1968, federal bar in '68 or '69, Supreme
Court in '71, of the United States.
Q: Who kind of practice have you engaged in
A: At what time?
Q Beginning - why don't you just give us
a brief history. Let's not make it exhaustive
A: I haven't practiced law in at least 15
years. I practiced law on a somewhat formal basis
fore that, basically in workers compensation and
maybe personal injury law before that.
Q: Any labor law work?
A: Not me, no.
Q: With what firm did you practice?
Q: L-e- p-o-r-e?
A: Yes.
Q: You had mentioned an Albert Lepore
earlier in your testimony. Is that the same
a: Does that firm continue so do business
a: Does it do business under the name
Q: Do you have any interest in the:
A: Well. I have a shareholder interest in
it. I don't practice, no.
Q: But it's a professional corporation
A: Yeah.
Q: And you have not practiced at Coia
& Lepore, as I understand your testimony for the
last l5 years, is that right.,
A: Yes.
Q: Do you have relatives that practice at
A: Well my son-in-law works at the
firm.
A: Darren Corrente. I have a cousin or a
cousin's cousin, I should say ,Raymond Coia and
another cousin's cousin Ronald Coia.
If you have a letterhead. I can go
through it and sometimes we catch
it.
Q: I know. Do they practice law in a
building that is, actually identified otherwise with
A: No.
Q: Has Coia & Lepore ever shared office
with any office of LIUNA or local
-
A: No.
A: No. You mean share offices? You are
talking about in the same building
or-
Q: Same building
A: Same building. yes. I didn't want to
lead you astray. In the same building
yes.
Q: What offices are in that same building?'
A: Well, right now, none.
Q: But at one time there were, I guess?
Q: What offices were in the building?
A: There was a local public employee
office, Local 1033, local 271,the Rhode Island
District Council, and the New England regional
Q: And although you left Coin & Lepore 15
years ago did you thereafter occupy any space
within that building?
Q: Yes.
A: I don't understand the question.
Q: Well, maybe I've made an assumption I
shouldn't have. When you stopped practicing law,
what did you undertake to do as a
livelihood?
A: I was an International representative
for LIUNA.
Q: For what period of time were you an
International representative for LIUNA?
A: Oh, I believe from 1978 to the present
time. I'm not sure of the dates though.
Q: What are the duties and responsibilities
of an International representative
of LIUNA?
A: To collectively bargain, to organize, to
participate in arbitrations, to handle grievances,
to legislate, to involve ourselves with political
activities, to formulate the programs and practices
of the convention and of the delegates.
Q: What specific - was there a geographic
area that you had responsibility for as an
A: New England and eastern Canada.
Q: Just taking New' England, forgetting
about what is included in Canada, what
geographically do you mean by New
England.?
A: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont,
Massachusetts, Connecticut and Rhoda
Island.
Q: So New York and New Jersey would be
A: That is another region.
Q: Another region?
Q: So your work was throughout that area
then as International representative?
A: Yes, yes.
Q: Are you paid a salary during that
Q: How much, do you remember? If you
don't, it is not a -
A: Probably around $22,000 a year,
Q: When did you next undertake any
additional work or take on any new
title with -
A: With LIUNA?
Q: with LIUNA or any local, subsidiary?
A: I was business manager of the Rhode
Island Laborers' District Council which
geographical jurisdiction was in Rhode
Island.
A: Rhode Island Laborers' District
Council.
Q: Was that one of those, were you in the
same building., That was one of the
-
A: Yes.
Q: Was that building owned by you
or family
members?
Q: In any event, what were your
responsibilities at Rhode Island Laborers' District
A: I negotiated basically all the
MR LUSKIN: Can we have a foundation of time
frame here? I'm a little bit lost
here.
MR. LYDON: Sure.
Q: This is when, from what dates, what date
A: Which dates do you want.?
Q: Rhode Island Laborers' District
Council.
A: During the whole time, I negotiated the
collective bargaining agreements, ran legislative
programs, handled the arbitrations and grievances,
made sure that our programs would be developed to
the point where they would be most effective,
coordinated organizing campaigns, both public
employee, industry, and in the construction
industry, went to affiliate meetings to assure the
affiliates what direction they were going in,
provided daily insight into each local
Q: What geographic area did that cover?
Just Rhode Island?
A: Rhode Island.
Q: What were the years, approximately?
A: 1967 through approximately '74.
Q: So during this period of time, you
actually spanned, this spanned your practice of law
A: 1960 - well. I started practicing law I
believe in 71. I was admitted to the
bar in '68.
Q: My only point was that you were
practicing law at Coia & Lepore at the same time
you were doing this job though At Rhode Island
A: Yes.
Q: What other positions have you held with
LIUNA?
A: Assistant regional manager, which was a
development of the International representative
position.
Q: From what dates were you assistant
regional manager?
A: I believe '86 or '87,1986 or 87.
MR. LUSKIN: Is that the beginning
or the end
THE WITNESS: I started, I was assistant
regional manager around 1986 or 1987, until 1988.
Then I was a regional manager. Then 1989, I was a
general secretary/treasurer, and regional
manager.
Q: Wait a minute; slow down. After you
are regional manager - I'm sorry, after regional
manager, you took what spot in '89?
A: Let me give you a chronology of it, so
A: 1967, I was a business manager of the
Rhode Island Laborers' District Council. Then in
74 or '75,I was an International representative.
And then in 1986, The International
representative, I was promoted to assistant
regional manager, which is an International
representative, but with a more -
and then in 1988, I was a regional
manager, which again is an International
representative, with responsibilities of the entire
region, and direction of district councils and
affiliates and programs, a responsibility of the
regions in the regional manager's
hands.
secretary/treasurer, General secretary/treasurer,
and regional manager.
Q: And we know that you became the General
president in 1992. Have you held other
positions?
MR. LUSKIN: Correction,'93.
BY MR. LYDON:
Q: 1993, sorry. But did you hold any other
positions other than General president?
A I'm president of our LOCAL 271 in
Providence, Rhode Island.
Q: What about that position of regional
manager? What happened to that?
A: That when I became General President, I
appointed the regional manager position to Armand
Sabitoni.
Q: Is Armand Sabitoni a lawyer?
Q: Does Mr. Sabitoni practice with Coia &
Lepore?
A: Not now.
A: No.
A: A long while ago.
A: He hasn't practiced law I don't believe
in the last five or six years.
Q: The responsibilities of being a regional
manager, I take it, are considerable within a
particular region, is that correct?
A: Yes.
A: Primarily, to ensure that the mandate of
, the convention is carried through, programs.
collective bargaining. to ensure that the fringe
benefit funds provide the best possible benefits,
the lowest cost for the respective affiliates in
each state, to review their development, to review
the idea whether they should be merged together for
more economically sound reasons, to develop a
uniform collective bargaining process in each
state, so that the contractors that we deal with
have a uniform rate, uniform working conditions, so
that they can travel from one geographical area
within the region to the other, and be competitive,
to utilize the training and educational programs
that were developed in New England, referring these
people who were trained, those who were specialized
in certain areas, such as environmental
remediation, to our contractors that we had
collective bargaining agreements with; to ensure
that the health and safety provisions that we had
developed and mandated through the convention would
be consistently adhered to and enforced in the
region.
Q: Does it also involve some - I assume it
also involved supervision of a lot of people as
A: That's correct; requires going to a lot
And it requires, again. the review and
supervision of whatever comes out of the
convention, and these programs I just mentioned to
Q: Does the supervision extend into locals
A: Well, the way we set it up in New
England, because that is what I've been talking
about now, the way we set it up in New England,
that each State has a District Council, and the
more direct contact from the regional office would
be with a District Council.
In each state, that District Council
then would monitor the collective bargaining
process, report back to the region, regional
manager or International representative, who would
be under a regional manager.
And so direct contact really was with
the District Council.
I took the position also of getting into
the locals and going to their meeting to get a
pulse of the beat, of the feel of what was
happening in the field.
Q: But in terms of, if we look at it as a
pyramid structure, then what you are describing to
me is that the District Council would be between
the regional manager or the assistant regional
A: There is. a lot of ways you could do it.
There is a lot of ways you could do
it.
Q: I mean in the New England area
A: Different autonomy. They each have
autonomy.
My plan was to have a District Council
review everything within the locals, and that the
region review everything within the District
Council.
So the pyramid structure would be
locals, District Council, regional office,
HEARING OFFICER VAIRA: I think this might be
Thank you, sir.
WHEREUPON, the hearing was
adjourned until 9:00 a.m.,
COUNTY OF WILL
I, Mary KAY BELCOLORE. a Certified
Shorthand reporter of the State of
Illinois