Mr. FINO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Honorable Chairman, honorable members of the committee my name is Ronald Fino. From 1973 through 1988, I was the business manager of Laborers' Local 210 in Buffalo, NY, and from 1980 to 1988, a trustee of the Laborers' International Union of North America training fund. During this time, I witnessed the gripping control of the union and its membership by the Cosa Nostra and the defilement of its workers' dues and benefit funds. Constituents, relatives, associates, and cronies of the mob would be and are always first in line when plush working assignments were and are handed out.

The son of a member of this arcane organization, I became privy to the methods and procedures implemented to financially and politically benefit from the victimized members and the unknowing public. As we already know, the Cosa Nostra and its members will go to extreme lengths to avoid public disclosures about its existence, and omerta, the code of silence, is paramount. You will very seldom hear an LCN member discuss family activity in plain language; thus, signals and hand language are used to discuss scores, mob activity, and, of course, each other. You will hear them refer

to this guy or that guy with various nicknames or just maybe even hand signals.

Even though my father was a member of the Cosa Nostra, I believe he instilled in me values that led to my eventual cooperation with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and provide them with an in-depth look at how labor unions are victimized by organized labor racketeering. No arm-twisting or potential prosecution was necessary. I willingly approached the Bureau and offered my insight and assistance.

Maybe I was a naive kid of 25-I don't know-and to be honest, if I had to do it over again, I don't know if I would do that today. I guess I kind of viewed life through rose-colored glasses and that problems such as the mob would be swept away and viewed as a cancer that we found a cure for.

In fact, I wasn't in office 1 month at Laborers' Local 210 when I approached an FBI agent that was a friend of mine and berated him and the Bureau for not helping the working people, such as those I represented, in eliminating Cosa Nostra domination. The agent responded that the Bureau could not do it alone, that it takes the likes of me and the very witnesses to mob activity that can make a difference. After assurances that I would never surface or ever have to discuss my family or my father, I agreed to readily provide whatever information I could

For over 16 years I communicated on a regular basis with FBI agents and kept abreast of Cosa Nostra activity throughout the United States and Canada. Much of that information pointed toward the Laborers' International Union and its total dominance by the Cosa Nostra. As much as I learned from my father, I learned even more about the mob's controls from the likes of the late Arthur E. Coia, who was then general secretary-treasurer of the union, and Michael Lorello, the vice president and regional manager for New York and New Jersey. Of course, my education didn't stop there. I also learned from Cosa Nostra members and union officials from Chicago, Cleveland, Boston, Miami, Los Angeles, Newark, St. Louis-I could go on and on.

You will hear my detractors, and those that I linked to the mob, say that I am a hired gun for the FBI or a story for sale to the highest bidding. I wish to point out that what I am reporting today, or what I have reported to the Justice Department and the FBI, is not new. In fact, everything that I have stated about the Laborers' International Union and the Cosa Nostra has been well-documented prior to my being compromised by the Cosa Nostra in 1989, and is contained in the voluminous 302's generated by me and located throughout the country in FBI vaults. Of course, what can my detractors say? "Ronnie is correct; I am a crook," or, "I like what Ronnie has to say about so-and-so, but when it comes to me, he's a liar."

Let me also point out to those that level charges about my being paid by the FBI to testify, this is in part true, but I also had to work hard. Besides lecturing at Quantico, the Bureau treated me as one of their own and allowed me to prepare investigation procedures and discovery techniques for labor racketeering and environmental crime. For those critics that say I opted for a life I now live, how do I answer them? Do I say I like seeing my children once a year, if I'm lucky? Or, do I say I like being able to walk down the

street without having to worry about being discovered? The only answer I can give is to consider the motivations, as well as the source, when people talk about me like that.

It's hard to express or for me to even recall that cold, fateful day in January 1989 when I learned from a Cosa Nostra member that the Buffalo organized crime family had placed a price tag on my head because of my cooperation with the FBI. Fleeing Buffalo, I had little choice but to turn to the FBI for assistance and safety. Forced to uproot my life and leave my friends, my loved ones, and the only way of life I knew, and to live on military bases, was not what I would call a normal living. Months of depression and confusion were the norm, and I desperately wanted and yearned for a new life.

I signed a personal service agreement with the FBI and assisted them and the Justice Department in bringing about the civil RICO complaint against the hierarchy of the Laborers' International Union and over 150 local union and district council officials. I also testified in four Federal court cases against Cosa Nostra members and associates. I provided information that led to the convictions of more than 50 Genovese family members, and it was that information and body recordings that led to the criminal RICO takeover of the New York City Mason Tenders by the U.S. Justice Department.

In May 1994, I was told by the FBI that my services were no longer needed and that I should look for work elsewhere. A new name was not good enough to find employment, and I had virtually no previous history to rely upon. The limited background I was given proved too much to overcome, and I was forced to grovel and beg for assistance to survive. As a result of what I had learned about the Cosa Nostra and its control of the Laborers' International Union, I went to work for the newly-created office of the inspector general. I have pointed out Laborers' local district councils, regional offices, and officials and business agents that are controlled by the Cosa Nostra.

I wish to strongly point out to this honorable committee that the control of the policy making and the appointments throughout the infrastructure of the Laborers' International Union lay with the Cosa Nostra. You could not become a general president nor an international officer of LIUNA without mob approval. This doesn't mean that each and every official is aware of the heavy hand that dictates that official's each and every move. The Cosa Nostra in Chicago and New York City are the bastions of mob strength, and even though families in Buffalo, Cleveland, New England, and so on, do control their respective areas, they remain as subordinates to the major families. In the cases of black and Hispanic vice presidents and officials in LIUNA they are placed in office purely to placate and fend off public an] membership scrutiny.

Even though the Cosa Nostra and its absolute control is not always visible, it still remains ever present and ready. Having an unlimited pool of finances available and the ability to hire high-caliber attorneys, this has created a perplexing problem for jurisdictional and judicial prosecution. We sometimes do succeed, and the types of John Gotti are incarcerated. Unfortunately, this is not always the case, and we remain in the mob's clutches.

Many creative members and associates of the Cosa Nostra are no longer adorned in the fedoras, and you will find that they are well educated and take full advantage of that education and the moneys that they have accumulated. Today you will find the mob is as reliant on public relations firms as it is with its high-powered attorneys and accountants. Projecting an image of goodness and popping up at charitable fundraising functions, combined with a voice for social justice, the racketeer builds a formidable defense against the Justice Department and prosecution.

As difficult as it has been to bring criminal indictments and convictions against this stubborn and resilient brotherhood of crime, much has been accomplished, but much is not good enough. Only when the total eradication of the Cosa Nostra influence with our political system, labor unions, and due process is complete will the common worker at last be free to raise his or her hands.

Now before I finish, I'd like to talk about one more thing. I understand that I've been somewhat criticized about an article in the Globe magazine-I believe it was 2 years ago-and I'd like to point out how that came about. In May of that year I was let go by the FBI. I was told my contract was up that September, but I was let go that May, and I was told that "That's it."

Right after that, at some point, I was talking to a friend of mine on the telephone, and I was explaining about O.J. Simpson and Buffalo and his connection to mob associates and the mob. Later on, he got back to me and told me I had gotten offered $200 from the AP for that story, or I got offered-I can't recall the exact amount-I know $9,000 of it was mine-from Globe magazine. At that time I thought the Globe, at first, was not Globe magazine, but the Boston Globe. Later on, I learned it was Globe magazine. I never talked to Globe magazine. I am not an agent for Globe magazine or any other newspaper, tabloid, or anything. I was a hungry man looking for money to survive. I had no employment. I had no FBI to turn to anymore. I had no job. So I hope you understand. And I'll be more than happy to discuss that later on with anybody, and the contents of that story.

[The prepared statement of Mr. FINO follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF RONALD M. FINO

House Of Representatives Committee on Crime

Honorable Chairman

Honorable Members of the committee,

My name is Ronald Fino,

From 1973 thru 1988 I was the Business Manager of Laborers local 210 in Buffalo, New York and from 1980 to 1988, a trustee of the Laborers International Union of North America Training Fund. During this time I witnessed the gripping control of the union and its membership by the Cosa Nostra the defilement of its workers, their dues and benefit funds. Constituents, relatives, associates and cronies of the mob would and are always first in line when plush working assignments were and are handed out. As the son of a member of this arcane organization, I became privy to the methods and procedures implemented to financially and politically benefit from the victimized membership and the unknowing public..

As we already know the Cosa Nostra and its members will go to extreme lengths to avoid public disclosures about its existence and omerta ( the code of silence) is paramount. You very seldom hear an LCN member discuss family activity in plain language, thus signals and hand gestures are used to discuss scores, mob activity and of course each other (you will hear this guy or the that guy but almost never the real name.)

Even though my father was a member of the Cosa Nostra, he instilled in me values that led to my eventual cooperation with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and provide them an in depth look at how labor unions are victims of organized racketeering. No arm twisting or potential prosecution was necessary. I willing approached the bureau and offered my insight and assistance. Maybe I was just a naive kid of 25. I don't know? and to be honest if I had to do it over again I don't know what I would do today. I guess I kind of viewed life thru rose colored glasses and that problems such as the mob would be swept away and viewed as a cancer that we found a cure for.

In fact I wasn't in office one month at Laborers local 210 when I approached an FBI Agent that was a friend of mine and berated him and the bureau for not helping the working people such those I represented in eliminating Cosa Nostra domination The agent responded that the bureau cannot do it alone, that it take the likes of me and the very witnesses to mob activity that can make a differences. After assurances that I would never surface or ever have to discuss my father or my family I agreed to readily provide what ever information I could.

For over 16 years I communicated on a regular basis with FBI and keep them abreast of Cosa Nostra activity throughout the United States and Canada. Much of that information pointed toward the Laborers International Union and its total dominance by the Cosa Nostra. As much as I learned from my father I learned even more about the mobs control from the likes of the late Arthur E. Coia who was the then General Secretary Treasurer of the Union and Michael Lorello the Vice President and Regional Manager for New York and New Jersey. Of course my education didn't stop there, I also learned from Cosa Nostra members and union officials from Chicago, Cleveland, Boston, Miami, Los Angeles, Newark, St. Lois, I could go on and on.

You will hear my detractors and those that I linked to the mob say

that I am a hired gun for the FBI or a story for sale to the highest bidding. I wish to point out that what I am reporting today, or what I have reported to the Justice Department and the FBI is not new. In fact everything I have stated about the Laborers International Union and the Cosa Nostra has been well documented prior to my being compromised by the Cosa Nostra in 1989 and is contained in the voluminous 302's generated by me and located throughout this country in FBI vaults. Of course what my detractors say: ( Ronnie is correct I am a crook, or I like what Ronnie has to say about so and so, but when it comes to me He is a liar!) Let me also point out to those that level charges about my being paid by the FBI to testify. This in part is true, but I also had to work and work hard. Besides lecturing at Quantico, the bureau treated me one of their own and allowed me to prepare investigative procedures and discovery techniques for labor racketeering and environment crime.

For those critics that say I opted for the life I now live, How do I answer them, do I say I like seeing my children once a year if I'm lucky, or do I say I like being able to walk down the street without worrying about discovery. The only answer I can give is consider the motivation as well as the source. It is hard to express or for me to even recall that cold fateful day in January of 1989 when I learned from a Cosa Nostra member that the Buffalo organized crime family had placed a price tag on my head because of my cooperation with the FBI. Fleeing Buffalo, I had little choice but to turn to the FBI for assistance and safety.

Forced to uproot my life and leave my friends, my love ones and the only way of life I knew and live on military bases was not what I would call normal living.. Months of depression and confusion were the norm and I desperately wanted and yearned for the past. But I knew I could never go home again and all I could do was try to start a new meaningful life. I signed a personal service agreement with the FBI and assisted them and the Justice Department in bringing about a Civil RICO complaint against the hierarchy of the Laborers International Union and over 150 local union and district council officials. I also testified in four Federal Court cases against Cosa Nostra members and associates. I provided information that led to the convictions of more than 50 Genovese family members. And it was that information and body recordings that led to the criminal RICO takeover of the New York city mason tenders by the United States Justice Department.

In May of 1994, I was told by the FBI that my services were no longer needed and that I should look for work elsewhere. A new name was not good enough to find employment and I had virtually no previous history to rely upon. The limited background I was given, proves too much to overcome and I was forced to grovel and beg for financial assistance to survive.. As a result of what I had learned about the Cosa Nostra and its control of the Laborers International Union I went to work for its newly created office of the Inspector General. I have pointed out Laborer local's, District councils, Regional offices and their officials and business agents that controlled by the Cosa Nostra.

I wish to strongly point out to this honorable committee that the Control of the policy making and appointments throughout the infrastructure of the Laborers International Union lay with the Cosa Nostra. You can not become a General President, nor an international officer of LIUNA without mob approval. this doesn't mean that that each and every official is aware of the heavy hand that dictates that officials every move. The Cosa Nostra in Chicago and New York City are the bastions of mob strength and even though families in Buffalo, Cleveland,, New England and so on do control their respective areas, they remain as subordinates to the major families.. In the

case of the Black and Hispanic Vice presidents and officials in LIUNA they are placed in office purely to placate and fend off any public and membership scrutiny.. Even though the Cosa Nostra and its absolute control is not always visible it still remains ever present and ready. Having an unlimited pool of finances available and the ability to hire high caliber attorneys has created a perplexing problem for judicial prosecution. We sometimes do succeed and the types of John Gotti are incarcerated. unfortunately this is not always the case and we remain in the mobs clutches. Many creative members and associates of the Cosa Nostra are no longer adorned in Fedoras and you will find that they are well educated and take full advantage of that education and the moneys they have accumulated.

Today you will find the mob is as reliant on public relations firms as it is with its high powered attorneys and accountants. Projecting an image of goodness, popping up and chairing charitable fund raising functions combined with a voice for social justice the racketeer builds a formidable defense against the justice department and prosecution. As difficult as it has been to bring criminal indictments and convictions against this stubborn ant resilient brotherhood of crime, much has been accomplished. but much is, not good enough, only when the total eradication of Cosa Nostra influence with our political system, labor unions and due process is complete will the common worker at last be able to raise his or her hands.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Thank you, Mr. Fino

The way we're going to operate the questioning will be under the 5-minute rule, and the way we want to do this is going to have to be by hand because the light system requires the main table, which we don't have, obviously, in this particular case.

I will recognize Mr. Buyer, first, for 5 minutes.

Mr. BUYER. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to yield my 5 minutes to the Chair.

Mr. McCOLLUM. I thank you, Mr. Buyer, and I appreciate your yielding.

Mr. FINO, can you tell me whether you've ever been convicted of a crime?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have a misdemeanor that was the result of actually a coverup on the part of me and some people in Justice to prevent me from surfacing on a case that involved some organized crime people. In fact, I had to go to the judge and tell him to keep me in the case-the Federal judge that was prosecuting me-and not to sever me because it would have compromised me, and eventually I pled to a misdemeanor.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Now you mentioned your misdemeanor conviction. On a more positive note, have you ever received any awards or been publicly recognized for special achievements?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have. In 1991, I was up for the Attorney General's Citizen of the Year Award. I've received numerous civic awards from the AFL-CIO, NAACP, and other minority groups for brotherhood.

Mr. McCOLLUM. You were the Man of Year, not, for the AFL-CIO at one point?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I was.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And, Mr. Fino , you mentioned the fact that you have been providing information regarding La Cosa Nostra to the FBI for a number of years-until 1989, I believe-and then, of course, you have subsequently. But in 1989 is when, I believe, you had to leave the union because of that. Is that correct?

Mr. FINO. Well, I left in 1988. In 1989 I was at a private business, and it was discovered that I was cooperating; based on that, I had to leave.

Mr. McCOLLUM. All right. But prior to leaving the union, were you paid by the FBI for any of the information, or has that just been subsequent to leaving?

Mr. FINO. No. During those years that I worked with the FBI, I was never paid.

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And he is the current general president of the Laborers' International Union of North America, right?

Mr. FINO That is correct, yes.

Mr. McCOLLUM. How did you first get to know him?

Mr. FINO I don't recall exactly how; I believe it probably was at a convention around 1978-through his father and other people from the New England area and Mike Lorello from New York.

Mr. McCOLLUM. How frequently did you have contact with him after that?

Mr. FINO. At first it wasn't that much. It wasn't until the middle eighties that we started making and having more contact.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Were your meetings strictly business, or did you meet with him socially as well?

Mr. FINO. It was business, but there were social functions. We would go out to dinner and there was an occasion where we did golf together.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Did you dine with him and that sort of thing then?

Mr. FINO. Yes, we did; we did that quite a lot.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Mr. Fino, are you aware that the Department of Justice drafted a 212-page civil RICO complaint against the Laborers' International Union?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I am.

Mr. McCOLLUM. In that complaint it is stated that four consecutive general presidents of Laborers' International, including Arthur A. Coia, the current general president, have associated with and been controlled by organized crime figures. The complaint also states that Mr. Coia has been associated with members of the New England La Cosa Nostra family for a substantial period of time. Based upon your association with Mr. Coia and your firsthand knowledge gained during the many years that you were in Laborers' International Union, do you believe these statements to be true?

Mr. FINO. Yes, they are.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Why do you believe them to be true?

Mr. FINO. Regarding Mr. Coia, because he told me, and at talks with his father and at numerous other talks with Cosa Nostra people.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Can you elaborate on those conversations?

Mr. FINO Well, the talks with Arthur Coia, Jr., the ones that I remember-and I believe they're in my declaration-would be the ones at Toms River at the wake of Michael Lorello, and at that time I was seeking office for vice president. In fact, Joe Todaro, Sr., who was the boss of the Buffalo Cosa Nostra family, had me go to the wake early to sit with John Riggi, the boss of the DeCavalcante family, which is actually the Genovese family, but he was the boss of that as well as a union official. I went down and saw Arthur Coia, Jr., who was staying at the same hotel with me, and I explained the fact that I had just seen John Riggi and what Joe Todaro, Sr., had told me. Coia stated that, whatever Joe Todaro tells you, you've got to listen to, and you know where those decisions are going to be made, that they're not going to be made here. Because I had asked-that was in response to asking about his fa

Mr. McCOLLUM. So it's only after you had left that you've been a paid informant for them.

Mr. FINO. That is correct, yes.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And, Mr, Fino, because of your testimony on behalf of the U.S. Government concerning your eyewitness accounts of criminal activity within the union, organized crime figures are now in jail. Isn't that correct?

Mr. FINO. That is correct, yes.

Mr. McCOLLUM. I am very much interested, Mr. Fino, in getting you into some questions that I think are very pertinent to this particular matter. You have known Arthur A. Coia for quite some time, have you not?

ther,, because his father was sick at the time. And he says, "You know as well as I do,"-words to that effect, anyway; I don't remember the exact words-that "You know as well as I do where those decisions are going to be made."

Mr. McCOLLUM. Mr. Fino, let me clearly understand this. Are you telling us that Arthur A. Coia, the current general president of Laborers' International Union of North America, told you that he answers to the mob?

Mr. FINO. Yes, he did.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Thank you. My time is up.

Mr. SCHUMER, you're recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. SCHUMER. Thank you, and we'll get into this later, but it is true that there are two Todaros and he never specified to you which one he was talking to? Did you know there was a union official named Todaro not related to this?

Mr. FINO. I know very well; I had to put him in the union.

Mr. SCHUMER. Good.

First, I have a few other questions for you, Mr. Fino. Isn't it a fact that everything you have told us here today in your testimony about President Coia and everything else, you have provided to the internal investigation?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. Since when have you been cooperating with the Laborers' in their investigation?

Mr. FINO. As of May 1995.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. And you've provided this information directly to Inspector General Gow?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have.

Mr. SCHUMER. The same man who we have heard our other FBI witnesses say that his integrity is unquestioned?

Mr. FINO. That is correct.

Mr. SCHUMER. And you also provided this to Robert Luskin, the GEB attorney or prosecuting attorney in the investigation?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. And is it your understanding that they're using that investigation right now in an investigation of President Coia, himself? Isn't that right?

Mr. FINO. That is correct.

Mr. SCHUMER. And about how many hours have you spent providing information to Gow and his investigators in connection with your cooperation?

Mr. FINO. Regarding Coia?

Mr. SCHUMER. In general.

Mr. FINO. Oh, quite a few.

Mr. SCHUMER. Over a thousand?

Mr. FINO. Oh, yes.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. Now let me ask you this question: you have some knowledge of Mr. Gow and Mr. Luskin. Do you believe if you gave them information that would lead to criminal wrongdoing that they would pursue it?

Mr. FINO. They would pursue it.

Mr. SCHUMER. And they would kick Mr. Coia out of the union with the ability they have from the agreement?

Mr. FINO. Yes, they would.

Mr. SCHUMER. Why do you think they haven't until now?

Mr. FINO. Well, I think that's still under investigation.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. Now let me ask you this; this is just about the screen. You requested this screen so that no one could see you. Is that correct?

Mr. FINO. I requested that my picture not be on television or in the cameras. I cannot afford that.

Mr. SCHUMER. Now I'm correct that you are not in the witness protection program and have never been in the witness protection program?

Mr. FINO. That is correct.

Mr. SCHUMER. Why has not the FBI put you in that program? Did you ask to be?

Mr. FINO. They've wanted to. It would have caused very, very serious problems between me and my wife, as well as-the witness protection program, it's pretty much-I've talked to the people

Mr. SCHUMER. That's fine. It was your decision not to do that. Is that right?

Mr. FINO. That is correct.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK, but it is fair to say that you've appeared on a number of repeated occasions in open court and were visible to the public eye in each of those occasions?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I did.

Mr. SCHUMER. And it's fair to say that your picture has appeared in newspapers?

Mr. FINO. Some.

Mr. SCHUMER. Yes, well, I have one right here. No one can see the picture from this far away, but this is in the Buffalo News right on the front page, and there you are, Ronald Fino.

Mr. FINO. That's me.

Mr. SCHUMER. And it looks just like you, except the hair-do is a little different.

Mr. FINO. I was a little bit younger.

Mr. SCHUMER. Isn't it a fact, also, as you mentioned, that your picture appeared in the tabloid, the Globe, back in 1994?

Mr. FINO. That was an altered photograph.

Mr. SCHUMER. But your picture was in there, correct?

Mr. FINO. You couldn't recognize it. It was a picture, but I didn't even know if it was me at first, myself.

Mr. SCHUMER. And let me ask you-you're aware that this paper has a circulation of 1.3 million people?

Mr. FINO. That I do not know.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. It does. Now the Globe did pay you for this story?

Mr. FINO. Yes, they did.

Mr. SCHUMER. And your share was $9,000?

Mr. FINO. That is correct.

Mr. SCHUMER. And the basic thrust of the story was-and let me just quote the headline here: "FBI Witness Charges Simpson had Drug Links to the Mob."

Mr. FINO.. I didn't know what their headline was going to be, but that's correct, yes, he did have drug links to the mob.

Mr. SCHUMER. He did? And who were his mob connections? Who were O.J.'s mob connections that you revealed in this Globe story?

Mr. FINO. Well, you had a few. There was Michael Milatello, who was a mob associate. He is the one I believe-

Mr. SCHUMER. And what was their relationship?

Mr. FINO. Michael Milatello was in business with the mob for years. He was down in Florida in a health center business with some mob associates, and he was kicked out because of that drug deal.

Mr. SCHUMER. So you think-so Simpson was linked to the mob this way?

Mr. FINO. No, because he was lined to Milatello, and the story was about Milatello and what Milatello had told me.

Mr. SCHUMER. Right. Let me ask you this, Mr. Fino: I know that supermarket tabloids like the Globe are certainly the source of interesting reading-I personally find the space alien stories fascinating. Do you think space aliens are linked to organized crime?

Mr. FINO. It's nice to be specious, Mr. SCHUMER, but I'm kind of surprised that-

Mr. SCHUMER. Let me ask you this: Have you ever sold your story to any publications other than the Globe?

Mr. FINO. No, I have not.

Mr. SCHUMER. Just the Globe, because you were down and out?

Mr. FINO. Pardon me?

Mr. SCHUMER. Just the Globe, because you were down and out?

Mr. FINO. As I said, at that time that was it.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. Nothing in the National Enquirer or the Weekly World News or the Star?

Mr. FINO. No.

Mr. SCHUMER. Thank you, Mr. Fino.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Thank you, Mr. SCHUMER.

Mr. Schiff, you're recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. Schiff. Thank you. I'm going to yield in a moment.

First, Mr. SCHUMER, I didn't know you were so interested in aliens. I'll be glad to take you to Roswell, NM, with me next time I go back. [Laughter.]

Mr. SCHUMER. You're not referring to your constituents? [Laughter.]

Mr. Schiff. No; it's not my district, as a matter of fact.

Mr. FINO, I just want to clarify one thing. You are now without a hood, but you're testifying behind this screen so that your picture can't be taken, and, of course, that always creates some kind of question: Is there something you want to hide? Is there an unfairness there? Because you're talking about someone who is not revealing all of your identity. Is the reason for the screen because you're living under another identity? Could you just explain that?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I am. I have spent, as well as the FBI has spent, a lot of money creating a new identify for me, and to show my face would compromise that new identity.

Mr. Schiff. All right. Thank you, Mr. Fino.

Mr. Chairman, I yield the balance of my time to you.

Mr. McCOLLUM. I thank you, Mr. Schiff.

A few minutes ago, when I was questioning you, Mr. Fino, I had asked you particularly about your meetings and your overhearing of a conversation with Mr. Coia, the current president general of the union. I wondered if you can describe for us what was said to

you by Mr. Coia regarding his control by La Cosa Nostra. What exactly did he say to you about that?

Mr. FINO. I can't recall my exact words, but he had to answer, too-at least at the time that it existed then-but he had to answer himself. We had discussed Riggi. We had discussed the fact that we were having problems with Riggi on the training fund, that he was not making contributions, and also the fact that I had talked to Riggi, and John Riggi had told me that maybe it was true that they were going to allow me to run because it usually flip-flopped between New York and New Jersey as to who would get the vice president's position for that regional office.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Well, you also said in your opening statement that La Cosa Nostra rarely ever used plain language and when, I guess, they were referring to the mob they used something else. But what they referred to in that conversation that Mr. Coia was having with you, it was clear to you that it was the mob that they were talking about? Absolutely, unequivocally clear?

Mr. FINO. Absolutely clear.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Have you ever witnessed Arthur Coia meeting with La Cosa Nostra members or associates?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Can you tell us about those meetings and if Mr. Coia acknowledged to you that he knew he was meeting with organized crime members?

Mr. FINO. We would have meetings at the convention, of course. He would be together with-I would see him with Vince Solano or Joey Mazza, who is an associate; or Ernie Kumerow, an associate from Chicago; Gaspar Lupo, who is a made guy from New York City, he would be with quite often; Sam Caivano, who, of course, was an associate; John Riggi, who was a made guy.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Now, John Riggi was what-the international vice president and regional manager of the New York-New Jersey region? What is his title?

Mr. FINO. No, that was Sam Caivano.

Mr. McCOLLUM. That was Sam Caivano. What was John Riggi?

Mr. FINO. He was the boss of the DeCavalcante faction of the Genovese family in New Jersey, as well as a union official in Elizabeth, NJ.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Did you every overhear Mr. Coia meeting with Gaspar Lupo, a capo with the Genovese LCN family?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I did.

Mr. McCOLLUM. What was that discussion about, and how did you happen to overhear it?

Mr. FINO. That was in regards to my remarks to him down at Michael Lorello's wake. He wanted to talk to Gaspar because Gaspar was the spokesman for the Genovese family.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Are you testifying today that you personally witnessed Arthur A. Coia, the current general president of the Laborers' International Union of North America, meet with known members of the mob and that he acknowledged to you that he knew they were mobsters?

Mr. FINO. He met with Gaspar Lupo, and I don't recall if he acknowledged it except for the fact that he had to check with Gaspar because Gaspar was getting the message, and I knew he knew

Gaspar was a made person; I don't know if we discussed the fact because it was an implied thing. It was common knowledge that people such as Vince Solano and Gaspar Lupo were the messengers for the Chicago and their respective areas in New York City.

Mr. McCOLLUM. What does a "made person" mean?

Mr. FINO. That means they've been inducted into the Cosa Nostra.

Mr. McCOLLUM. That's what Mr. Moody was talking about earlier today with us, I suspect, where he said they had to go through a formal process in becoming a member of La Cosa Nostra.

I thank you. My time-or Mr. Schiff's-has expired.

Ms. LOFGREN, you're recognized for 5 minutes.

Ms. LOFGREN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Fino, for being here to testify.

Mr. FINO. Thank you.

Ms. LOFGREN. As I was listening to you speak and your background and what you did at age 25 with some idealism, I was thinking about what things had been like for you and some assumptions that people could make. You mentioned that your father was in the mob or the leader of the mob in Buffalo or high up?

Mr. FINO. Yes, he was.

Ms. LOFGREN. But that doesn't mean that you're in the mob just because your dad was, does it?

Mr. FINO. No, it does not. Thank you.

Ms. LOFGREN. And we heard some people here say that Mr. Coia, Sr., was connected to the mob. And the fact that the senior was connected doesn't mean we should, you know, automatically assume that the son is connected any more than you are. Isn't that correct?

Mr. FINO. That is correct, yes.

Mr. FINO. I was interested in when the last time was that you spoke to Mr. Coia junior. Do you remember what year that was?

Mr. FINO. I believe that was in 1987.

Ms. LOFGREN. And that was about the time you became an informant for the FBI up in Buffalo; is that right?

Mr. FINO. No, I go back to 1973 with the FBI.

Ms. LOFGREN. Oh, OK. So you were an informant prior to that time?

Mr. FINO. Oh, yes.

Ms. LOFGREN. OK. And Mr. Coia-when was he elected president of the Laborers' International? Do you know what year that was?

Mr. FINO. It had to be 1992 or 1993.

Ms. LOFGREN. I thought it was March 1993. Does that sound about right?

Mr. FINO. Yes. I was told that; I don't have firsthand knowledge.

Ms. LOFGREN. You spoke earlier, in answer to another question, about the amount of time you've been working now to clean up corruption in the Laborers' International Union and that you've worked with the inspector general, Mr. Gow, and also Mr. Luskin. I gathered from your comments that you had some respect for them and their integrity; is that correct?

Mr. FINO. I do. Yes, I do.

Ms. LOFGREN. Now if at the end of the investigation of Mr. Gow and Mr. Luskin, with all the information they're able to gather-

and they have 50 FBI agents and they're going at it-if at the end of that they decide not to charge Coia, would that be good enough for you?

Mr. FINO. I would accept that, yes, because I understand the justice system; that it takes more than my testimony as an individual, and that's the way the system operates and it should.

Ms. LOFGREN. Just a couple of questions: you signed a personal service contract with Mr. Gow to be compensated to spend time telling him what you knew about mob influence and the like; is that correct?

Mr. FINO. Yes, there was that, and to also help him with other areas across the country.

Ms. LOFGREN. All right, and you've been paid by the FBI also to-not at the beginning, but later into the personal service contract-to provide information for them?

Mr. FINO. Well, most of the information was in. What I was paid for by the FBI was to put that information to good use in court, as well as

Ms. LOFGREN. Oh, so witness services?

Mr. FINO. Yes, speech and lecture, as well as work on other matters for the FBI.

Ms. LOFGREN. So other than-you haven't been involved as a laborer for many years-other than your current effort with the Laborers' Union and your preceding efforts as a witness, what other prospects do you have for employment at this point?

Mr. FINO. I've had some assurances from people in the inspection of this thing, from the laborers, that they will help me with employment after we have completed these investigations.

Ms. LOFGREN. So you're proving your integrity to Gow and to others by what you're doing now?

Mr. FINO. Pardon me?

Ms. LOFGREN. You're proving your integrity to Gow and the inspector general by what you're doing now?

Mr. FINO. Oh, yes. It's not just integrity; they needed my help. I received a phone call from Bob Luskin asking that I help them, and I agreed to help them. At first I didn't

Ms. LOFGREN. Thank you. I know my time has expired, and I don't want to take advantage of the chairman. Thank you very much.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Thank you, Ms. LOFGREN.

Mr. HEINEMAN, you're recognized.

Mr. HEINEMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. FINO, you're a gutsy guy.

Mr. FINO. Pardon me?

Mr. HEINEMAN. You're a gutsy guy.

Mr. FINO. Thank you, sir.

Mr. HEINEMAN. When did you tell the FBI that Coia was meeting with the LCN and other made men?

Mr. FINO. At the times of those meetings.

Mr. HEINEMAN. Can you put it in point of time?

Mr. FINO. Well, the meeting with Gaspar Lupo at the Mike Lorello convention, and that would have been in 1987, January 1987, I believe. Other meetings with other people would have been other dates.

Mr. HEINEMAN. That's fine. Now, in your opinion, are there unions that were not or are not controlled by the LCN?

Mr. FINO. The Laborers' International is totally controlled by the laborers

Mr. HEINEMAN. But the others?

Mr. FINO. Oh, yes. There are a number of good unions.

Mr. HEINEMAN. There are good unions that are not controlled by the LCN?

Mr. FINO. Yes, that's correct.

Mr. HEINEMAN. Could you name a few?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I think that the Electricians' Union overall-and I knew Charlie Pallard and some of the other leaders up there- has never been controlled. They have small locals around the country, but they're not controlled.

Mr. HEINEMAN. How about the AFL-CIO?

Mr. FINO. There have been links into the AFL-CIO through the years, but, overall, George Meaney I knew was never controlled.

Mr. HEINEMAN. How about Sweeney?

Mr. FINO. I don't know Mr. Sweeney.

Mr. HEINEMAN. OK. Being a "made man" or "making your bones," what does that mean?

Mr. FINO. Normally, in the old days, it would mean to "make your bones," that you would have to go out and shoot somebody.

Mr. HEINEMAN. Shoot or kill?

Mr. FINO. To kill, yes, or at least to go on a hit. You'd have to be part of a hit.

Mr. HEINEMAN. Is that still correct today?

Mr. FINO. I don't know. I know for a fact in certain families they've eased up on the rules a lot, and they've allowed in people- maybe relatives or things like that-that haven't whacked somebody. That's the expression they use-"whacking"-people that haven't been in on a whack.

Mr. HEINEMAN. So any of the unions now controlled by an LCN or a made man would mean that that union was controlled by someone that did kill somebody.

Mr. FINO. Yes, yes.

Mr. HEINEMAN. OK. Tell me your impression of the consent decree, if you know what that is.

Mr. FINO. Yes, I'm familiar with the consent decree.

Mr. HEINEMAN. What's your impression of that?

Mr. FINO. Well, actually, when the consent decree came down, I was in favor of it because I felt it would be a good method to clean the Laborers' up with.

Mr. HEINEMAN. And do you still feel that way?

Mr. FINO. Yes, if it's handled properly, I do. Yes.

Mr. HEINEMAN. And what did you think of the Teamsters' Union, the way that was handled?

Mr. FINO. I have some misgivings on the Teamsters, but I worked on part of some Teamsters' areas with Special Agent Stan Nye and a few other people, and I had some misgivings on some of the moves made, but I understand the difficulty in cleaning a union; it's not easy and it's not an overnight job. This is something that takes years.

Mr. HEINEMAN. Tell me about the award the AFL-CIO gave you.

Mr. FINO. Yes, that was in Buffalo, NY; that was for outstanding service to the AFL-CIO in organizing brotherhood.

Mr. HEINEMAN. I'd like to yield my time to the chairman, Mr. McCOLLUM.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Thank you very much, Mr. HEINEMAN.

At one point in time, did you have a conversation with Arthur A. Coia about your becoming the international vice president for the New York-New Jersey region of the Laborers' Union?

Mr. FINO. That was the one at Mike Lorello's

Mr. McCOLLUM. That's where that conversation took place at that point in time?

Mr. FINO. Yes.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And what did Mr. Coia say to you about the election itself, about your running for it? Did he give you any indication that there had to be approval for that?

Mr. FINO. Yes, that those decisions would be made elsewhere; that our talking about it was not going to decide who's going to make that person the vice president. And, of course, I'm using words today to incorporate basically what we discussed, and that I had told him that Joe Todaro had sent me down. I explained my meeting with Riggi, and that he had told me that he thought it was going to be Caivano, that they were going to select Caivano. And I told him I had talked to Riggi and that Riggi had said it might not be Caivano, now that I'm throwing my hat into the ring. And he said, "Well, you know as well as I do where those decisions are going to be made. Let's not talk about it."

Mr. McCOLLUM. Are you saying that the current general president of Laborers' International Union of North America told you that you had to receive approval of a member of La Cosa Nostra's Buffalo crime family in order to be able to seek a position of international vice president of the Laborers' Union?

Mr. FINO. Yes; that's correct.

Mr. McCOLLUM. My time has expired. Mr. WATT, you're recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. WATT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I missed the intrigue with which this witness entered. Are these panels bullet-proof? Mr. Chairman.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Mr. Watt.

Mr. WATT. Are these panels bullet-proof?

Mr. McCOLLUM. I don't think they're bullet-proof. They're designed to protect him from photographers.

Mr. WATT. Oh, OK. I just wanted to make sure; if I was in any danger, I wanted to be prepared.

Mr. McCOLLUM. I hope that you are not in this room, Mr. WATT, but the witness, I believe, is, and therefore we have the panels to protect him from an identity question at his request.

Mr. WATT. I'm happy to contribute to any safety that I can for this witness. I kind of missed the entrance and the setting for this. It's kind of an unusual setting for a Judiciary Committee hearing, even for this committee. I'll yield my time to Mr. SCHUMER, the ranking member.

Mr. SCHUMER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to go over two things again that I want to reiterate, because that's the focus of the hearing.

No. 1, is that there is nothing new in what you're telling us today. Is that right, Mr. Fino?

Mr. FINO. That is correct, yes.

Mr. SCHUMER. Nothing at all?

Mr. FINO. No, nothing new.

Mr. SCHUMER. Nothing at all. It's all known and it's known to the investigative officials.

Mr. FINO. That is correct; yes.

Mr. SCHUMER. And, second, that you mentioned before that you thought the consent decree was a good idea and is working. Once again, if you presented any information of criminal activity or wrongdoing to Mr. Gow and to Mr. Luskin, do you believe they would take the appropriate action and remove the appropriate officials?

Mr. FINO. Yes, he would.

Mr. SCHUMER. Even if that official was Mr. Coia, the head of the union.

Mr. FINO. Yes, he would.

Mr. SCHUMER. And if they don't do that and the investigation is still ongoing

Mr. FINO. I know it's ongoing now.

Mr. SCHUMER. Right. And you would have faith in that decision as well?

Mr. FINO. As I explained.

Mr. SCHUMER. So your basic view is the way the setup works now, justice will be done. Is that fair to say?

Mr. FINO. If followed through properly, yes. We're having problems with finances and things like that, I know.

Mr. SCHUMER. But there's no problem with Gow's or Luskin's integrity to do it?

Mr. FINO. No, there is not.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. Thank you very much. I yield back to Mr. WATT.

Mr. WATT. I yield back the balance of my time, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Thank you. Mr. Bryant, you're recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank the witness for being here today. I do appreciate your concern and the sacrifice you've made in changing your entire life style and putting your family at risk. I guess, again, I tend to look at these cases from the eyes of a former prosecutor and knowing some of the things that folks like you go through. And usually they are folks that we like to say in our closing arguments as defense counsel-attack their credibility, or whatever-that they are bad guys, that we don't normally get the kind of folks that are Boy Scout leaders, Sunday school teachers, and Mother Teresa types. I mean, they are right down there with them. But I think in your case you were young enough that you actually had accumulated a very positive record. I know it's been mentioned that you were AFL-CIO man of the year. You were man of the year for the NAACP. You received an award for human rights achievements from the African-American Students' Association at the State University of New York, and, additionally, an award for human rights work by the Southern Baptist Leadership Forum in 1986. Is that correct?

Mr. FINO. Yes, it is, sir.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. Probably more important to your occasion here today, though, is the fact that you have consistently provided what I believe to be accurate information to the FBI in regard to union and mob activities, have you not?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. And, in fact, you've testified in at least four Federal trials across the country?

Mr. FINO. Yes; that's correct.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. And during that testimony, in preparing that testimony, you were put on the witness chair by the U.S. attorney in four different districts: Ohio, two or three in New York, and New Jersey, as I understand it.

Mr. FINO. Yes.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. And, additionally, you've given testimony in a number of grand jury proceedings?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. As a result of your testimony, have mobsters been put in jail?

Mr. FINO. Yes, they have.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. Mr. Fino, to what extent is the La Cosa Nostra influence within the LIUNA? Does it pervade all levels of the union, including locals, district offices,, regional offices, and the international headquarters?

Mr. FINO. It's rule has always been absolute. I mean, they may let a local out in California go ahead and do its daily activity-and that union official may not even know he's being controlled-but they do control everything from the top up. And even some of the vice presidents that are not controlled, their approval is done by the Cosa Nostra; they will approve that. If they don't want that person, they'll let that person go. But they do control everything. They control the jobs, and, of course, as you know, with the pensions and health and welfare and all of these various funds, millions upon millions of dollars.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. Mr. Fino, would it would be likely that one would be selected as the president of LIUNA, such as Mr. Coia has been, without the mob approval?

Mr. FINO. No, that was definitely necessary. You could not be selected to be president without the approval of the mob. They would not allow that.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. Did you know Mr. Coia in 1981 during that time frame when he was charged with other Federal charges?

Mr. FINO. I knew his father better than him, yes; I was talking to his father quite frequently about that case.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. Do you have any information as to Mr. Coia, Jr.'s guilt on those charges from the 1981 matter?

Mr. FINO. I could tell you that as far as the father they were all involved and that he felt sorry that he got his son involved in it.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. And as I understand it, they got off on a legal technicality, a legal defense of statute of limitations, nothing on the merits of the actual case.

Mr. FINO. No, some of them did. There were a couple of guys that took the fall for Angelo Fosco on that. The Coias and Santo

Trafficante from Florida got off on a technicality, and I believe it was a statute of limitations problem.

Mr. BRYANT of Tennessee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Mr. BARR, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. BARR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. FINO, in your experience with the FBI, do they take their investigations of mobsters and the mob pretty seriously?

Mr. FINO. They do today; that's for sure.

Mr. BARR. And, based on information that they receive, if they put that in writing in 302 reports or other sorts of reports, they don't take that lightly, do they?

Mr. FINO. No, they do not.

Mr. BARR. If the FBI, in your experience, of course, puts into a document that a certain individual is known to them to be an associate of a particular mob family, that's pretty serious, isn't it?

Mr. FINO. Yes; they've had more than one source.

Mr. BARR. And that, in your experience, if you saw such a report, would it be your impression to just disregard it?

Mr. FINO. No, I would not.

Mr. BARR. So in other words, let's say you really didn't know Mr. Coia to the extent that you have testified that you have, and you were considering becoming associated with him in some capacity- maybe appointing him to something or what not-and you received a report from the FBI that Mr. Coia was a known associate of the Patriarca crime family, would you continue to solicit his friendship or engage in an association with him after that point?

Mr. FINO. If it came from the FBI, I would have a problem.

Mr. BARR. Thank you, and Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Thank you very much, Mr. BARR.

I've got a question that really is pregnant sitting out here to be asked that I think needs to be, Mr. Fino. Mr. Coia, Arthur A., who is currently the president-general of LIUNA, is staying in that office during the time of this current operation to supposedly clean up the union. What do you think about his staying in office? What do you think about his still being president during all of this?

Mr. FINO. As long as he has no say-so on the cleanup until the cleanup is done, I have no opinion on it. If he has input in the replacement of these people or any say-so whatsoever in the cleanup, then I would have a problem with that.

Mr. McCOLLUM. You would have a problem with him having a say-so of who the people are who take these positions, right?

Mr. FINO. Oh, yes.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And that may very well be what's happening now. You don't know whether that's true or not, right?

Mr. FINO. I have no knowledge of that.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Did you-I mean he certainly still has the power of appointment as president. That's what presidents have, right?

Mr. FINO. Pardon me?

Mr. McCOLLUM. He has the power of appointment, as presidents have powers of appointment.

Mr. FINO. Well, I don't know under these circumstances. I haven't discussed that with anybody.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Let's go back to the beginnings of all of this, where you were again telling me about Arthur A. Coia. Did you ever travel with him?

Mr. FINO. Did we ever travel together? I'm sure we did. I know we were down in Florida together, and we were in other States together.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Yes, well, when you went down to Florida with him, did he have anybody accompany him besides you?

Mr. FINO. Yes. We went to a golf match down there, but he would always have his entourage with him: Dominique Lopietro, Jimmy Merloni, some of the laborers around him.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Were any of the people who accompanied you and Mr. Coia on that trip organized crime members or associates?

Mr. FINO. They would go to dinner with us sometimes, yes.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Were they organized crime members?

Mr. FINO. Yes. Joe Todaro, Sr., went to dinner with us the night I had to nominate Sam Caivano for his position as vice president.

Mr. McCOLLUM. So do you know if Arthur E. Coia, the former general treasurer of Laborers' International Union of North America or his son, Arthur A. Coia, the current general president of Laborers' International Union of North America, were ever indicted?

Mr. FINO. They were indicted on what we refer to as the Hauser case with the boss from Florida, Santo Trafficante, and Carlos Marcello from New Orleans.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Do you recall the disposition of those cases?

Mr. FINO. As I was stating earlier to someone, the case against the Coias was tossed out because of the statute of limitations, but I believe the case against Angelo Fosco, Sal Tricario, and John Eppolito-Angelo used to be the president-that went on, but I know that Bernie Rubin and a few other people took the fall for Angelo, they took the rap.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And I think the record will show that, with regard to Arthur A. Coia, his case was dismissed because the statute of limitations had run out.

I will now yield the time on this round to Mr. Chabot for 5 minutes. Mr. Chabot, you're recognized.

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. FINO, first of all, I want to thank you for your courage and for your service to your country and to the rule of law by being here today and doing what you've done. We've already heard at some length the great harm that mob-connected union bosses can impose on honest rank-and-file union members, and I know that your bravery in coming forward must be appreciated by all the rank-and-file. You've described mob control over the Laborers' Union as pervasive. Could you describe for us in more detail just how far down into the union the mob reaches, and tell us the kinds of influence that the mob exercises at the local level of LIUNA, if you would, please?

Mr. FINO. Well, the mob controls the Laborers' International Union and its locals through the international and choke points, such as the families from Chicago, the families in New York City, New England, Buffalo, and Cleveland, with New York and Chicago, of course, being the most powerful, and other families across the country would also get involved, and from there they would spread

out. They would manipulate the national agreements, things like that, to favor favored contractors, and you could very easily through insurance scams and things like that, help that contractor get a job. And maybe all you want from that job is just to put some people to work.

Other times maybe there's a piece of the action. It depends, because the first rule of the Cosa Nostra is not to make money; it's the perpetuation of the family. And that's what they use the laborers for. This is where they were going to put their people to work. And then the second, of course, is money, and I've never seen them refuse money. And they've made quite a few millions of dollars on those pension funds, health and welfare, union dues, political action funds-you name it and they make money on it.

And as far as the local union, the big way they control the local union is the jobs. If you don't go along with their bidding, you're going to end up at a very dangerous job, if you get a job at all. The plum jobs go to the Cosa Nostra associates, cronies, sometimes to political friends. It depends; police friends, judges-I've seen everything. They're much more powerful than the public can ever possibly imagine.

Mr. CHABOT. Have you ever seen that influence at the local level extend to the award of particular jobs? Are there particular ones you could point to?

Mr. FINO. Oh, sure. That would happen all the time. I know, for example-this is something I've never gone into with anybody; I don't believe we even went into it with the FBI-but with the Laborers' International, we would not allow national contractors in New England or New York or New Jersey because of the families. We did not want Chicago having any influence. Because most of the agreements were controlled by Chicago or Chicago affiliates, we did not want them having any influence into those areas. And so through national agreements, you could manipulate pretty much who you got a contract for.

I know so many different ways that we could make a contractor get a job and make a lot of money. It's very simple and in areas that you're never going to get caught at, because it's done through insurance companies with bonding and a lot of other ways. It could be through labor. They may have a Davis-Bacon job for those that understand the wage-and-hour law; they'll Pay the Davis-Bacon rate for 20-some hours. In the meantime, the inspector's on the take; everybody else is on the take. So they show the Davis-Bacon rate; in the meantime, the guy is working some 50 hours-the guy or the girl. I mean, there are a lot of scams that go on every day, every single day. It's constant.

Mr. CHABOT. IS it accurate to say, then, that the guys who aren't connected, the ones that aren't directly involved with the mob, the ones that are just hard-working guys in the union or women in the union, as the case may be, they're the ones that probably suffer the most because they're the ones carrying the weight for the ones that aren't pulling their weight?

Mr. FINO. No question about it. They're the ones that burned in this situation more than anybody.

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much.

Mr. FINO. You're welcome, sir.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Let's see, everybody's had a round. Mr. BARR has not. Mr. BARR has, have you not? Yes, he has. I think I'm the only one left who hasn't, so I recognize myself for 5 minutes. It sounds strange, I know, Mr. FINO, but everybody else has yielded time to me; I have not had my own 5 minutes, and we'll try to wrap this up for your very quickly.

In terms of Mr. Arthur A. Coia, the current general president, do you know if he has obtained copies of FBI 302's, which are the written documents that reflect interview information, those that reflect statements made my you to the FBI concerning criminal activity on his part?

Mr. FINO. I don't have any knowledge-I don't think that he would have them unless they were public documents.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Would it surprise you if he did?

Mr. FINO. I understand there are some public 302's available in New York City, but those are the only ones I know of.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Well, if he tried to do that, it shouldn't be too surprising to me, but it might be to you. I'd like for you to tell us a little bit about your actual job with the union in some detail. You were at one time the local union business manager of Local 210 in Buffalo, right?

Mr. FINO. That is correct, yes.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Could you tell us what your hiring authority was?

Mr. FINO. My what was?

Mr. McCOLLUM. Hiring authority.

Mr. FINO. Ours was absolutely controlled by the family. We had a legal hiring hall, but the good jobs would go out the back window.

Mr. McCOLLUM. What was your experience with regard to the district councils and the La Cosa Nostra influence?

Mr. FINO. The one in Buffalo?

Mr. McCOLLUM. Yes.

Mr. FINO. That I had testified about because that was being set up for Joseph Todaro, Jr.'s brother-in-law. Joseph Todaro, Jr., wanted his brother-in-law out of Local 210; plus, Local 210 had no money, so they wanted to expand the area and bring in other areas, Jamestown and other areas.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And what about the regional offices in La Cosa Nostra? What can you tell us about them?

Mr. FINO. The regional office was Sam Caivano, which was answering to the Genovese family even though we had Gambinos and a lot of other

Mr. McCOLLUM. So we've gone from the local, to the district councils, to the regional offices. What about the general executive board?

Mr. FINO. The general executive board-you have a lot of good people on the general executive board, but, unfortunately, the general president has the say-so and people are afraid to come forth. I know good people on the executive board, but they're afraid to come forth and they go along with things.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Now you knew Arthur E. Coia, the father of the current president, even better than you know the current president, you've told us. Did he-did the father-ever acknowledge or discuss with you mob influence at Laborers' International Union?

Mr. FINO. All the time. We had numerous conversations.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Could you tell me a little bit of the nature of that?

Mr. FINO. Well, we had a big problem going back with the Coias. The Coias were fighting the Foscos. Arthur did not believe in Angelo's ability; Angelo did not believe in Arthur, and there was a lot of power struggle going on. And a number of the Chicago family actually supported Arthur Coia because Angelo was drunk all the time and he was a loose cannon. His son wasn't always listening to the mob to make decisions-his son, Peter-and so there was a battle going back and forth. So Arthur would be in Buffalo, constantly, with me-we traveled together quite a lot-discussing all the different people that are supporting him, and, of course, I would-in fact, he met with Joe Todaro, Sr., about being supported by Chicago.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Did Angelo Fosco later become the general president of LIUNA?

Mr. FINO. He was the president at the time.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Right. And did Arthur, Sr., the father, discuss with you his expectations regarding how the money in the international training fund was to be used?

Mr. FINO. Well, the training fund was Coia's pet; that was Coia's. Angelo had no say-so, even though he was allowed some people

Mr. McCOLLUM. Was La Cosa Nostra involved in the use of those funds?

Mr. FINO. The Cosa Nostra people benefited from employment on those funds, and possibly some contractors.

Mr. McCOLLUM. What you've basically described for us today is that you've got a union that is severely mobbed-up, and it has been for some time. And there's no doubt in your mind whatsoever, from what you've said to me, that Arthur A. Coia, the current general president of that union, could not have been elected in the first place if he was not given the blessing of the mob, and there's no doubt in your mind that he has been involved with the mob and associated with mob-related figures throughout the time that you were acquainted with him. Is that not correct?

Mr. FINO. That is correct.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Thank you very much.

Ms. JACKSON LEE, I see you've come in. You may be recognized for 5 minutes.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much, and let me apologize for being delayed on the floor, dealing with matters of promoting children and, hopefully, creating opportunities that are justified by these hearings that are here today, which is to find out facts, and I appreciate the gentleman's courage for being here.

I started my remarks this morning by indicating that we should all join together against organized crime and join together to determine the facts. And let me apologize for not hearing all of your testimony, but as I was reviewing some of the notes, it comes to my attention that you were in the union in what location?

Mr. FINO. In Buffalo, NY.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. You were in Buffalo. So you were not in Providence, RI?

Mr. FINO. Later on, not then; I was never in Providence as an official.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. You made visits? Is that what I understand?

Mr. FINO. Later on I was there quite often, yes.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. All right, but your home base was in Buffalo?

Mr. FINO. Yes, it was.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. And, likewise, you left the union in what year?

Mr. FINO. I left the union in 1988.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. You can understand, then, a certain line of questioning that I might offer. We're talking about 1996, and we're talking about trying to get as broad an understanding of accusations or questions being raised about the mob influence in labor. You seem to be really more focused in the Buffalo area, and, yet, you are expanding on mob involvement across the Nation. How can that be? Do you have firsthand knowledge?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I do. I was also a national trustee for the Laborers' International Union training fund.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. And in being the national trustee, would that give you the ability to have the innerworkings of every single local?

Mr. FINO. Oh, not every single local, but I knew every single vice president and they talked to me, and I knew every single regional manager and I talked to them.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Well, certainly, with that in mind in particular then, I would suggest that you may not have all of the information that you are seemingly offering in terms of the wide net that you're casting.

Mr. FINO. I thought the net was rather narrow, actually.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Well, and I was hoping that it would be, but it seems that you are casting a rather wide net, and I was just trying to determine whether you had direct knowledge of each and every aspect of what you are seemingly to allege.

Mr. FINO. Well, if it's in my declaration, it's spelled out. If I have direct knowledge-and that's what my declaration is-then, yes, I do.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. But nothing after the time that you left the union in 1987-88.

Mr. FINO. No, I didn't think my net was cast that far.

Ms. JACKSON LEE. Well, I wanted to just at least qualify that you did leave in 1987-88.

With that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to yield the balance of my time to Mr. SCHUMER. Thank you.

Mr. SCHUMER. So, again, just to reiterate what Ms. JACKSON LEE said, your knowledge extends up until 1987?

Mr. FINO. I have additional knowledge, but those matters are under investigation now.

Mr. SCHUMER. So you haven't talked about those yet?

Mr. FINO. No, I haven't.

Mr. SCHUMER. Everything you've talked about is at least 8 or 9 years old, and maybe older.

Mr. FINO. That is correct.

Mr. SCHUMER. And if things have changed since then, you're not telling us about it or you are telling us about it?

Mr. FINO. Well, I can't-if things have changed regarding other areas, excluding areas under investigation, I would tell you.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. Let me ask you this: you talked about Mr. FOSCO before. You've made it clear that Mr. Fosco was mob-connected?

Mr. FINO. Oh, yes, he was.

Mr. SCHUMER. I just want to make sure. Is this the Mr. FOSCO that you're talking about?

[Photograph shown.]

Mr. FINO. That's him.

Mr. SCHUMER. Do you know who is next to him?

Mr. FINO. I don't know who's in the middle, but I recognize Mr. Bush's picture.

Mr. SCHUMER. President Bush?

Mr. FINO. President Bush, yes.

Mr. SCHUMER. OK. And one final question just to reiterate, and I'm sorry to do this, but I think we have to. And that is, if you have given everything you know to Gow and to Luskin

Mr. FINO. Yes, I have.

Mr. SCHUMER [continuing]. And you have faith in their integrity that if they find evidence of wrongdoing, they will pursue it?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I do.

Mr. SCHUMER. Even if it involves Mr. Coia?

Mr. FINO. Yes, they will.

Mr. SCHUMER. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Mr. Coble, you're recognized for 5 minutes.

Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I thank this witness for his appearance today. I apologize that I missed it because I was attending another hearing that was simultaneously conducted. With that in mind, I will yield 1 minute to the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. HEINEMAN.

Mr. HEINEMAN. I thank the gentleman.

Mr. FINO, did you ever know of Coia being close to Bush?

Mr. FINO. Did I ever know of Coia being close to Bush? Not that I know of.

Mr. HEINEMAN. OK. You mentioned Davis-Bacon scam. Was that a one-shot deal, or is this a routine-type scam?

Mr. FINO. It's a routine-type scam.

Mr. HEINEMAN. All over the country?

Mr. FINO. Well, there are a lot of right-to-work States where it wouldn't take place because of the work rules; I mean it may because they have the same Davis-Bacon law, but usually Davis Bacon, when it was set up, followed the union structure. So, I would say a good portion, yes, because we would have contractors- even going down to your State-we would have contractors, and they could manipulate the local market to make sure that that contractor had an advantage, even at the very least with the insurance rates-bonding and liability.

Mr. HEINEMAN. I thank you, and I yield back to Mr. Coble.

Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield the balance of my time to the Chair.

Mr. McCOLLUM. I want to thank you for yielding.

And, Mr. Fino, we want to thank you, particularly, for being a witness today. I want to recapitulate a couple of things and make

sure my understanding of all of this is right. It's my impression that you are probably about as forceful and as a knowledgeable a witness about Laborers' International Union and racketeering as there is-period-anywhere. One of the reasons I can say that is because of what you've said to us today. You've testified, as I understand it, in four major mob trials, three of which led to convictions, and the fourth ended up being a plea bargain. And I gather you're so reliable from the FBI'S standpoint that they've retained you to teach at service classes on mob activity at the FBI Service Academy. Isn't all of that true?

Mr. FINO. Yes, it is.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And, further, isn't it true that the Department of Justice has asked the executive board attorney to seek assistance from you in investigating crimes within LIUNA? Isn't that true, too?

Mr. FINO. Yes, that is.

Mr. McCOLLUM. It seems to me, also, that you've told us the reason why you got involved in all of this, going back to knowledge of your father being a member of La Cosa Nostra, is because of the rank-and-file workers that you perceive are the real victims in this. This is why you were a witness, why you came forward and cooperated with the FBI for years before it became public knowledge and for years before you ever left the union and took any kind of compensation from the FBI. IS that not correct?

Mr. FINO. I hope it is, because I don't know what motivated me, but I used to hear laborers come up and say, "Ronnie, I can't buy a dress for my daughter's graduation," or "I have to go out and steal tonight to get milk." And here I could have gotten them work, but I couldn't. So, obviously, that played a major part. I don't know what the catalyst was that pushed me over. I mean, I grew up with the Cosa Nostra. I saw it; I could never understand it. I couldn't ever understand the rationale of why somebody would want to be in this arcane organization. These are things I couldn't accept.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And you were concerned about minorities, too. As I recall, you got an NAACP award, did you not?

Mr. FINO. Yes, I did. Mr. Chairman, it was all the members, members across this country that I've seen. And there were a lot of abused people, and there are a lot of abused people out there.

Mr. McCOLLUM. Well, what we've seen from your testimony and your personal experiences today is that Arthur A. Coia, the current president general, not only knew about mob involvement with Laborers' International Union, but through his association with the mob furthered their control of Laborers' International Union. Isn't that a fair representation of what you told us today?

Mr. FINO. I explained that he was controlled by the mob; that's how he got his job.

Mr. McCOLLUM. And, obviously, the mob controls Laborers' International through their control of key officer positions, including the presidency, and they control who works for the union through their control of the hiring hall. That's what you've told us today, right?

Mr. FINO. Yes, it is; that's correct.

Mr. McCOLLUM. I think it pretty well sums up the status of what is there and why we're so concerned with Laborers' International

Union and whether or not the Department of Justice is doing the right thing in the way it's trying to clean it up. It also expresses the concern we have about why Mr. Coia is still the president of that union. You've said you could understand maybe why-we're going to get into that more.

But there is no doubt after your testimony today, Mr. Fino, and we really appreciate your putting forth the time and exposing yourself-even though protected from photography, still exposing yourself-to be this witness today, to lay all of this out for the public, so we can understand better what this is all about and how the mob really works and how it still works in unions where they're not cleaned up, and how we've got a job to do as an oversight committee to try to make sure at every stage that workers, the everyday person that's got his money in that revolving fund, is protected. I want to thank you again for coming.

Now I'd like everybody to stay in place until Mr. Fino puts back on his cover for this and leaves the room. We don't need any photography.

You need to put that on before you get up. All right, fair enough-almost. Thank you again, Mr. Fino.

The subcommittee is adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 2:16 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned, to reconvene at 9:30 a.m., Thursday, July 25, 1996.]